How We Learn to Parent Our Inner Child Around Food & Weight – In Session with Marc David

How We Learn to Parent Our Inner Child Around Food & Weight – In Session with Marc David

Marc David
Welcome, everybody. I’m Marc David. I am the founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating. We are in the Psychology of Eating Podcast. I’m with Wendy today. Welcome, Wendy.

Wendy
Thank you. Hi, Marc.

Marc David
Hi, glad we’re here, glad we’re doing this. If anybody’s new to the podcast, here’s what’s going on, Wendy and I get to meet for the first time and have a session together with the idea of moving you forward in a good way.

So Wendy, if you could wave your magic wand? And if you can get whatever you wanted with food and body? What would that be for you?

Wendy
So, I think it would be something you’ve probably heard many times before, which is just getting to a place where I’m more at peace, where I’m not thinking all the time about food, where I’m not changing my mind, and testing this way of eating and then ascertaining that that wasn’t the best way. And let me try this way now and just been going down the rabbit hole for 20 years. So I’ve done the Keto and the paleo and the raw foods and, you know, gluten free and dairy free and it just want to be at peace, maybe be the weight I was when I started dieting and thought I needed to lose weight. It’s like to be back at that way.

Marc David
So this has been a 20 year journey of going down the rabbit hole with dieting.

Wendy
About, yeah

Marc David
Okay, how old are you now?

Wendy
57.

Marc David
So if you started dieting around 37 ish, what was going on for you before that, when it came to weight, and when it came to your body, where were you at?

Wendy
So I had always been slender and never thought about food or cared about food. I was an athlete, I could eat whatever I wanted, and was always in good shape. And it was just never a concern for me in life, and then a new marriage a second marriage in my 30s, and having a third child and then gained a little bit of weight. And then with that partner, it was very much a concern. It wasn’t something I was ever accustomed to before. And my husband at that time, you know, really freaked out if I gained 10 pounds. And it suddenly became like, that was just not something I was ever accustomed to. I didn’t have any body image issues until then. And so I just, you know, really started trying to diet just to lose a little bit of weight, but then it just carried on for years of getting into all kinds of emotional problems and, and health problems. And so yeah, it just never was a thing until I was about maybe 35. I’ll say

Marc David
Still with the same partner?

Wendy
No, no.

Marc David
So, has there been a time in this 20-year journey where you’ve hit the target that you wanted to hit?

Wendy
Yes, it’s been, you know, very much ups and downs of going through even studying myself studying psychology and becoming a life coach and working on all the emotional issues and came to a place of peace in terms of my own body image, I feel very happy now that I don’t experience any kind of blame or guilt or shame or being hard on myself. That part is all very nice. And it shifted from caring about how I look in my jeans to then caring about health and, and wellness and how I feel not being sick. So there’s there’s been that change a lot over the 20 years.

Marc David
Can you share what’s going on with you health wise?

Wendy
So I would say prior to five years ago, about five years ago, I got to a place where I was doing pretty well. I wasn’t maybe the weight I ideally would love to be but everything was pretty good. And then my new partner at that time, well, we had been together for four years and we were engaged, he passed away. So he had cancer. So during the year and a half that he had cancer, there became again, a big focus on food and nutrition and supplements. And of course, with much more of a desperation attached to it then, you know, in my 30s wanting to look good in my jeans. Now it was all about survival for him, of course, but it was the constant focus every day it was food and nutrition. And then when he passed away right away after my mother died, and then three months after that my 23 year old son took his own life so it was.

Marc David
I’m sorry.

Wendy
Thank you. So that was five years ago. So of course that was a period where I then just ate macaroni and cheese and cried and gained 40 pounds and I didn’t care I was pretty okay on myself that, hey, I’m going through grieving and I have to go through that, and who cares about the weight. I’ll worry about that later. I’m dealing with my emotions right now. So then, a year and a half ago, I got long COVID and I just lost 40 pounds just dropped off. But the thing that I noticed in going to a naturopath and doing supplements and recovering from that was that for the first time, I did not feel hungry all the time, I did not have the appetite. And I know I’ve read your work and watched your podcasts and I understand the importance of appetite and the appetite suppressants are not a good thing. But it was such a relief to me to not feel constantly hungry. So for about a year, I maintained that 40-pound weight loss that I had, and was slowly being able to eat foods again, she had me on an elimination diet, and I was absolutely fine just eating some chicken and rice and broccoli. And I was perfectly happy with that. But slowly as she was adding more foods back into my diet, I have gained back about 20 of the 40 pounds. And now I am hungry again. And I, now I just desperately want to go back to that feeling that felt so good, of not always being hungry.

Marc David
Because it was so easy to keep the weight off because you weren’t eating, you weren’t hungry.

Wendy
And it was just such a relief because it felt like oh, all these years of trying to figure this out and figure that out. And now it’s just not an issue was just so good. And I’m happy that I can eat things again now. And I want to be enjoying, you know, a nice glass of wine and a charcuterie board and some cheese and crackers. And I feel like you know, I am a foodie even though I love healthy foods, and I perfectly enjoy every health food that’s out there. But also just feel like I want to enjoy some of the finer things in life as well. And how can I do both? How can I enjoy some crackers and cheese? And then not feel like Oh, I’m going to go pig out now I’m going to eat the whole block of cheese and the whole box of crackers.

Marc David
Which is possible for you?

Wendy
Oh yes. And the thing is, I love all foods so much that if you put a bowl of broccoli, or brussels sprouts in front of me and a bowl of chocolate and told me I have to pick I’d be slightly upset because, don’t make me pick, I want the brussels sprouts as much as I want the chocolate.

Marc David
Right? Right. So you’ve been on a pretty powerful journey, you know, there’s been a lot happening for you. And I can only imagine what you’ve gone through, you know, again, I’m sorry for all your losses. And, and I’m also hearing that, you know, all of us have our own journey with food and body that’s very unique to us. And yours is very unique to you, you know, I’ll tell you, a majority of people that I speak to when it comes to working with weight, it usually oftentimes starts when we’re really young. So that’s when we’re 12 and 13 and 14 and 15. And for you It started in your mid-30s. And in a lot of ways, you know, it was triggered in part by okay, you know, childbirth, that whole experience.

And all of a sudden you’re eating because you’re grieving, which is a whole different experience. It’s completely different. I’m glad for you that there’s a voice in you that understands okay, you know, forget about the weight for a little while – because grieving is grieving. And it’s hard to deal with. And it’s arguably one of the most difficult emotions in the universe. And so it’s good to give ourselves space to know how do I get through this, and if food helps you get through and you have some extra weight, then it’s not the worst thing in the world. So I’m hearing you saying that you’re at a point where there’s a part of you that doesn’t have the same kind of shame that you might have had in the past around the body or the guilt, etc. And you just want to lose some weight.

But it sounds like something really shifted in you in terms of if the person you’re with the person you’re sleeping with who’s supposed to be loving you is telling you you’re not good enough. That’s hard and we could be easily knocked off our feet in a certain way and start to lose our sense of self and our sense of value. So then you go about trying to lose weight by different diets which is fine. I mean it makes sense. So I’m just sort of feeding back to you what I’ve heard you just share. It made sense to me that you say okay, let’s let’s try different ways to lose weight. And along that part of the journey, some things work, some things don’t.

Wendy
Well it just felt so good when that 40 pounds fell off, even though it was a sucky way to have it happen through COVID, but, I mean, I felt so good after.

Marc David
Yeah, here’s the thing about that. I understand that. I really do. And there’s a certain thing that happens when we have a big, I’m going to call it easy weight loss. And what can happen is, you get a temporary high, you really get a high because Oh, my God, I got there. Oh, my God, I didn’t have to do anything. And it’s just a high, there’s the high of part of it’s reaching a goal that was just so hard to do. And all of a sudden, you’re not doing anything and you’re getting there.

Wendy
It’s like winning the lottery!

Marc David
Exactly! It’s like, I’m making all this money, I’m not doing anything. I’m losing all this weight, and I’m not doing anything. So there’s a high in that. And what I’ve noticed is, that high that a lot of people feel when they have a significant weight loss, it’s not a reproducible high. And it’s easy to get attached to wanting to get back to that high. It’s no different than an alcoholic who says to you yeah, but when I have a bunch of drinks, I feel great.

Wendy
Yeah, but arguably, the alcoholic, you know, wants to not be an alcoholic. That’s maybe not healthy, but then it kind of is healthy for me to be a lower weight.

Marc David
Maybe, maybe, you know, here’s the thing. I like to be very careful when we just the collective we get into the conversation about weight loss. And we put health at the forefront of the conversation. I just like to be careful and the reason is as follows. There’s so much collective conversation. And so much collective momentum called weight gain equals bad for your health. The field of science, the field of medicine is infused with weight hate. And that weight hate informs a lot of how medical professionals and medical scientists go about their business and talk about weight and talk about weight and health and even do their research. There is a fascinating book called Health at Every Size. Have you heard of it?

Wendy
I’ve heard you mentioned it in the podcast.

Marc David
And there’s all this compelling research. And the bottom line is in our extremes – extreme skinny, extreme obesity – you’re running into health issues. In our extremes. There’s a middle ground where it’s very nebulous as opposed to what weight actually does or doesn’t do when it comes to health. You could get to a perfect weight and that doesn’t guarantee you perfect health. I’ve observed many people in my life go through all kinds of diseases and die and they had lovely weight. They were fine. So all I’m saying is it could be easy for us to use health as the number one reason for why I want to lose weight when what it really is, is your preference. Which is fine. I have no problem saying I just want to lose weight because that’s what I want to do. Because I think I’m gonna look better and feel better about myself.

Wendy
I think I’m gonna feel better I’m not as concerned with the looking better at this point. I mean, sure, that’s nice. That’s like a bonus. It’s great. But I just want to feel good.

Marc David
Okay, so what would the “feel good” feel like that’s different from now? When you imagine I lose X amount of weight, feeling good is gonna feel like….

Wendy
So when I did lose the 40 pounds, it was being on the floor with my granddaughter being able to just jump up very easily not having to, like get into a certain position to be able to stand up. Just to be able to stand up immediately off the floor, you know, it’s just being lighter and more flexible and just go up the stairs and not be out of breath. And, granted, after recovering from the long COVID I’m not on any medications, I have no conditions, no diseases. I’m in more or less perfect health. But it’s just that heaviness that prevents me from physically enjoying life as much.

Marc David
So is that the main reason you would say – that you would feel better without that physical heaviness. And that’s the driver for you to want to lose weight.

Wendy
Yes, to want to lose weight, yes, then there is the slight times when I do the emotional binge eating, which I’ve become very good at noticing and just stopping and realizing why I’m doing it. So that’s getting better. And I haven’t yet figured out the one when I’m overeating when I’m happy. Because if I realize I’m stressed and that I’m reaching for food, and I noticed that I feel it was a good reason for me to talk myself through that. But when I’m very happy and I want to overeat, I feel more like well, that’s, I’m entitled to that. And I deserve that. And that’s in line with kind of spiritual abundance, and I should be able to eat all the good food I want. And so I really have a message for talking myself through when I’m overeating when I’m happy. So there’s the two things, the physical part and then the emotional part

Marc David
Understood, okay. So I always like to return to the baseline question of how is my relationship with food and body being a great teacher for me? How are your challenges around food and body being a great teacher for you? I find when I’m asking that question that we can start to get somewhere interesting.

So what comes up for you when I asked that question? Right now in your life, here’s this challenge with food and body. Here’s this challenge with weight. Here’s this challenge with you eating when you don’t feel good, and eating more food when you do feel good. How is that a teacher for you? What’s it trying to teach you?

Wendy
Because I’ve got clear on what it has taught me over the years, I don’t know that there’s anything left that it could be beneficial to be teaching me.

Marc David
Ah, okay, that’s fair. I like that. Okay, so I’m going to say there’s lots of good beneficial things that it’s teaching. And I’m going to, I’m going to pick and choose a few things. Okay, in no particular order. So you wish to lose weight? I’m gonna call that a preference for you.

Wendy
Okay

Marc David
I’m gonna call it a preference. I know you want to be lighter. And I’m gonna guess you’re gonna just feel better about yourself. Looks-wise just, you know, look in the mirror and go this ain’t bad. Okay, that’s important for you. I just think it’s important to own that. It’s okay to want to lose weight because it’s going to make you feel good to have a different body. I think it’s important to own that preference. Because when you own that preference, you’re owning it. You’re being honest with yourself. And you’re clear about your motivations. That’s why that little piece around health, you leading with that, if health was so important, you’d be a health nut. You’d be a health nut in other places in your life, not that you don’t care about your health. But I’m just saying,

Wendy
Oh, I’m trying to like absorb this!

Marc David
Health is important to you, but all I’m saying is in my guestimation your main motivation to lose weight is not for health. Yeah, maybe you think it’s going to be a side benefit. And it’s not even to spring up really fast. When you’re on the floor with your niece. Who cares? You know? That’s not such a big deal. So it takes a little extra time to get up off the floor. 10 seconds of your life. That’s all you save.

Wendy
It really sucks having to like, shift into like, doggy position to hoist yourself up

Marc David
Sure.

Wendy
I’m fighting for my limitations here.

Marc David
I know, but, sure. All I’m saying is, I think there’s a place where you just want to lose weight, because that’s your preference. And all I’m saying is big hug. That’s fine.

Wendy
Right? It is my preference. And if I didn’t know you, and trust and respect your work so much, I would be like, fighting you so hard on this, but because I really respect you, I’m telling myself I gotta take in what you’re saying and, really reflect on that.

Marc David
Well, does it ring true at all for you? Don’t listen to me, check in with yourself. And ask yourself, Is there any truth in that for you?

Wendy
Well I’m here with you for a reason. Because I haven’t figured it out myself yet. Yeah. So I’m gonna reflect on that, of how important that is, to me like to just actually, look good, too. But I’m like, why not? I’m not opposed to looking good. Let’s look good, you know!

Marc David
Yeah, it’s owning it. Here’s the thing. You know, at age 35-ish, you get the message, all of a sudden, your body’s not good enough. You do a bunch of work on yourself and get to a better place like – Hey, I’m loving myself more. Great. And now, what’s your preference? Like, what do you want to wear? Like, you know, what kind of car do you want to try? What colors do you like to put on? What accoutrements do you like? It’s all up to you in terms of what you’re gonna wear and what accoutrements you like. And it’s up to you to decide how you want to do your hair. And it’s up to you to decide how you wish your body to look. And all I’m saying is, that’s good. It’s good to own it. Because if that’s what’s motivating you and inspiring you, the more clear you are, the more you have the possibility to get where you want to go. You’re not working against yourself. That’s all I’m saying.

So, let’s put that to the side for a moment. Here’s the part of you that eats when you don’t really want to be eating. A part of your brain goes, Okay, wait a second, I’m really happy. I shouldn’t be eating now. But then another part of your brain goes well, but I should be eating now, because this is abundance. And there’s also times when you’re eating, when you’re not in a good mood. Is this true when you just find yourself turning to food?

So this is where food is being a great teacher for you. Your relationship with food is asking you to learn. Because we’re in the school of life. And certain things we’re good at, and certain things we’re still learning. And you’re learning how to regulate your emotions, dance with your emotions, be with your emotions, in ways that work for you. You’re learning how to be with your emotions in ways that work for you. When you use food to regulate your emotions, you don’t always do it in a way that works for you.

Wendy
Correct.

Marc David
So all we want to do is get all of you on the same page. That’s all. Just want to get all of you on the same page. Because there are different parts of you talking. And that’s one of the reasons why I was saying there’s part of you that wants to lose weight. I’m wanting to point out that you, and we, all of us, we tend to have a committee that lives upstairs. And it’s not just you up there – it’s not just Wendy, one person, making all the decisions and having all the conversation – there’s actually a bunch of Wendys.

There’s Wendy, who was 35 years old and was told like hey, you’re not good enough. And there’s Wendy, the like, mature woman who’s like, hey, I want to take care of myself. I want to be healthy. I want to feel good about myself. I want to eat the right things. And then there’s probably little girl Wendy in there. Who’s going yippee, I’m in a good mood. Let’s eat!

Wendy
Yep, Let’s party!

Marc David
So there is a part of you that wishes to, understandably so, reward yourself with food. I think it’s very important to be very clear that rewarding oneself with food is not a bad thing. I’ll go out and eat. On the weekend, I’ll spend a little more money on a nice restaurant because I’m rewarding myself for a week of hard work going to my favorite restaurant. Food is a reward. Why? I might have a nice dessert, here and there. Why? Because it makes me feel good. And I deserve it. So nothing wrong with that. Particularly when it’s the adult in me saying that. When it’s the child and the child in us is more like I want what I want when I want it. And why can’t I eat Fruit Loops at every meal, because that’s what I want. It tastes so good. Life is great. Let’s celebrate.

Wendy
Bingo!

Marc David
Yeah. So you got that. You got that kid in you that just wants what she wants when she wants it. Because? Because it’s fun.

Wendy
And because I always could, I always could eat whatever I wanted and never gained a pound all through my 20s. And yeah, that’s exactly it.

Marc David
So you wanna be her! And you’ve got to catch up that you’re not her anymore. Does she still live in you? Sure, the memory of her lives in you. There’s this part of you that’s happy-go-lucky and that is like, Hey, I’m a woman who can eat whatever I want. Whenever I want it. You were living the dream.

Wendy
Yeah!

Marc David
You were definitely living the dream. And now you’re not.

Wendy
Right. Okay, that makes sense.

Marc David
So y’all got to catch up to that. Yeah, you have to catch up to – I had my moment in the sun where I was living a dream. Thank you for that wonderful gift. And now I’m not anymore. Oh, but wait a second, I got long COVID. And I kind of started reliving the dream again. Not really, because I was eating so much food because I wasn’t eating food. And the weight just came off. So you had this tiny little weird taste of the dream again?

Wendy
That is so accurate. That’s exactly how it felt. Like this is the real me, you know?

Marc David
Yes. So we got to get you current. And understand that we need to bless that old part of your life and say goodbye to it. And honor it, be thankful for it and really embrace that this isn’t your body anymore. And this isn’t your life anymore. Not like it used to be. So that’s why I was saying it was like a drug hit like, Oh, I’m sure I want to feel like I’m 25 again, and have all that.

Yes. So right now, this, Wendy right here, this is the real you. This is a real you. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. You might have your preferences in terms of how you want to shift it or change it a little bit. But intrinsically, I think what you’ve been learning over the last handful of years is that this version of you, it’s okay. It’s just okay. You don’t have to be anybody else. But you can have your preference. But if you never lost another pound, in an ideal universe, the woman in you, the adult in you, the queen in you would say, you know, I’m going to be lovable no matter what. I love and accept myself no matter what. And I have my preference to lose some weight.

And in order to move towards, what I’m going to say is, you’re more natural weight. I don’t know how much weight your body has to lose. Nobody knows how much weight a body truly has to lose. People make up numbers. I need to lose 25 I need to lose 40 pounds. No you don’t. You’re not a scientist. No scientist knows that. We make up a number. And we go after that number. Like it’s our religion. And we have to learn how to understand that it’s a preference. To understand that there’s a mystery, to understand that the only way to shape shift your body and find a different weight, is to do it in a way that’s natural and sustainable.

So the first part of our conversation was you saying, I want to have peace. What I believe you want to have peace from and you kind of said this, I’m just putting different words around it, is your head is cluttered with all this information. How do I lose weight, you go on this diet, you go on that diet, you eat this, you don’t eat that. And they all say something different. And this works, this doesn’t work, that used to work, works for her, works for him, didn’t work for me. And it’s all confusing. And you’re not getting where you want to go.

And so you just want peace because that committee is all yelling at each other. They’re all talking. So the kid in you just wants to eat whatever she wants, and not gain any weight. The adult in you wants to be responsible and do the right thing. The part of you that wants to weigh exactly what I want. You know, she’s talking but you’re not really giving her enough voice. And you put at the head of the table, the person who says you need to be healthy, which means you need to lose all this weight in order to be healthy. And that’s not necessarily the most accurate voice.

Wendy
I mean, I saw my fiance die of cancer, and then my mother died of cancer right after, so there was a big fear around health and nutrition because both of them tried so hard through nutrition to turn it around. And I was doing all the research and I do have a lot around health

Marc David
Sure. I totally understand that. What I’m just asking you to do is decouple the intensity of “food will save me.”

Wendy
Right

Marc David
Food saves nobody from death. Everybody dies no matter what.

Wendy
I witnessed that.

Marc David
Yes. So everybody dies no matter what they eat. I’ve witnessed that too, with my parents, with aunts, with uncles, people who are healthy, people who exercise, people who were, you know, hiking 25 miles a week and, and die. So there’s no guarantees relative to what you eat. I’ve had relatives who have eaten the worst diets and they live to be in their 90s.

Wendy
That’s my dad, He’s on no medications, has no diseases. He’s a happy-go-lucky guy, has been his whole life. And he eats a grilled cheese and a doughnut every day. And I’m not kidding. Every day, he goes to a fast food restaurant has a grilled cheese and a doughnut. And every time he does bloodwork, his doctor says keep doing whatever you’re doing!

Marc David
So you’re supporting my point from your own experience, which is there are no guarantees. Listen, I’m a nutrition fanatic. If you’re in my house right now, I got all kinds of organic foods in my refrigerator, I get all kinds of herbs and supplements. I’ve been in that business for my entire life. And as much as I love it, and I believe it’s helped me. I’m also aware that there’s a level where it can all mean nothing. Because we’re all different, we all have a different journey. So the place I want to see you focus on is you being your best self. The place I want to see you focus on is using your relationship with food to teach you. And I think one of the important places it’s teaching you is to help you see yourself in relationship to food in terms of how you deal with your emotional experience.

We’re all emotional eaters. We all turn to food to feel good. We all eat with emotion, you have a celebration, you’re eating with emotion, a holiday dinner, you’re eating with emotion, going out on a date, that’s an emotional eating experience. And yeah, you can eat for stress and boredom and all that other stuff. But we’re emotional beings. So we’re going to be emotional eaters. It’s about you learning how to make it work for you. So part of it for you is understanding that the kid in you isn’t going to get what she wants.

Wendy
I love that. That’s been the biggest breakthrough today.

Marc David
Yes. So if the kid in you is not going to get what she wants, it’s always nice when that kid in you pops up because she’s gonna pop up and say like, Hey, Wendy, let’s party, let’s eat. And you the adult can step in and go You know, honey, big hug, but that’s not going to necessarily serve us in this moment. Or, you know, honey, we’re going to have one doughnut. But I want you to eat that doughnut real slow. And I want you to enjoy it and savor it. Because that’s going to be your moment.

Wendy
Oh, my God, I haven’t had a doughnut in about 10 years. But yeah, I hear what you’re saying. That’s awesome.

Marc David
So to learn how to treat that kid in you like a kid, and we have to give kids guidelines. You know, we have to give them tough love sometimes, we have to let them know, Yeah, here’s what you want. But here’s the rules.

Wendy
That is so cool. I thought it was the more kind of spiritually aware, evolved Law of Attraction-y person that was saying, you know, I could have the abundance and this is so enlightening to me now, because you’re 100% right, that it’s not her, it is the kid.

Marc David
So what a great thing to be aware of. Because that’s why you’re eating when you’re feeling good.

Wendy
Yeah

Marc David
Because it’s party time. And it makes sense. It makes sense to the adult mind and the child’s mind. We’re feeling good, let’s celebrate. But you have to call in your queen, your adult, the Royal part of you.

Wendy
I love it! Thank you

Marc David
Yes. Now, here’s now here’s the other part of you that is going to eat when you’re not feeling so good. So the practice there, and it’s a practice is learning how to catch ourselves.

Wendy
I’m getting better and better at that all the time.

Marc David
Yes. Yeah. And it’s a practice and it’s learning how to catch ourselves, and forgive ourselves. And I think it might be interesting for you to focus on maybe, I don’t know if you’ve ever done this for yourself in recent years, but just write down a list of all your choices for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks. Like, what are the foods I tend to gravitate towards for those meals? What are the foods that I think are healthy for me, and I kind of enjoy them. So instead of following a diet following a specific system of eating, let’s create the Wendy system because you’ve already learned a bunch of things. Maybe take some of the greatest hits from those different systems.

And the peace of mind comes when you say you know something, no matter what any human being needs, including myself, we’re all going to end up in the same place. So I get to choose what I’m going to eat, and what kind of person and eater I wish to be. So yeah, if you value health, then you gravitate towards healthier foods. If you value pleasure and a little celebration, then mix in some pleasurable and celebrational foods that might not be on your perfectly healthy list. But it’s not like you’re eating it all the time every day. So it’s really looking at your life and looking at what you value.

Wendy
Yeah.

Marc David
Because I’m with you, I value health. I also value pleasure. So I look to strike that balance. I also have my preference for how much I weigh. So yeah, there’s going to be certain points when I definitely want to have more food and want to eat more, fill-in-the-blank, bread, pasta, whatever it is. And in order for me not to do that I have to enjoy what I’m eating I have to be present to it. And I have to be clear in myself what my value is – what I’m valuing in that moment. So it’s not a fight it’s not about eat this don’t eat that because part of it for you also there’s a little bit of good girl bad girl going on in there.

Wendy
Yes!

Marc David
I’m a good girl if I eat like this, I’m a bad girl if I eat like that.

Wendy
Yeah!

Marc David
So good girl, bad girl keeps us in the child’s mind. Because that’s how we often relate to our children. You know, you’re being a good girl. You’re being a bad girl. Here’s what good girls do. Here’s what bad girls don’t do. So it’s you letting go of the good girl and bad girl conversation and just looking at foods not as good or bad. But looking at foods as what you feel, generally enhances your health. And what you feel generally will detract my health, especially if I eat too much of it.

Wendy
Yeah.

Marc David
There’s a concept from the field of toxicology. The dose makes the poison. Oh my God, don’t eat sugar it’s bad for you. Don’t eat this, it’s bad for you. Well, guess what? The dose makes the poison. Right now you have all kinds of toxic chemicals circulating in your body, not enough to kill you. Yeah, what happens is we make foods bad and wrong. And then if we’re inclined to eat those foods, then what happens if I eat the bad food? It makes me a bad person. That’s where the mind goes. If I labeled the food as bad, morally bad, evil, bad. Then if I eat it, I’m a bad person. And what do you do to bad people, you punish them? How do you punish them, you make them exercise, or you have less of that food or you have more of that food? Or we self-reject? So I want to see you leave that entire conversation.

Wendy
So question, do you think it would be a better idea? What I do now is absolutely everything in my house is always organic, healthy, really good. Along with some, I’ll make myself my own little organic, sugar-free cookies. You know, like there’s some treats involved, but it’s all organic and gluten-free. So I’ve had everything in the house that way and then I would eat as a treat like out at a restaurant or something. Do you think it’s better to incorporate some of it back into the house to not have that division?

Marc David
That’s a great question. Whatever works best for you. I don’t know the answer to that question. I think it’s a great system, the system that you have right now. It works. I mean.

Wendy
If someone comes into work with a little treat or whatever, I might have one because I’m at work and I don’t worry, because when I go home, it’s just going to be all the good stuff, you know?

Marc David
Exactly! So you’ve created a boundary. So you know, if I’m going to eat foods that are on my “This is not ideal for me to eat regularly” list, those foods are out there. Don’t live in your house, you’re not going to get tempted. That makes perfect sense to me.

Wendy
Okay.

Marc David
Yeah. And noticing when you go into labeling of food is good or bad, which is morally good or bad. Understanding Yeah, these are certain foods that detract from my health, enhance my health, what do I choose?

And we talked about you and little Wendy, the child in you. Who really wants to have fun. And so here’s the thing. One of the ways you help her is you give her fun in ways other than food. Because she wants fun. She probably even wants to break some rules. Well, what other rules could you break? What other fun things could you do? That don’t result in you eating things that you really don’t want to eat?

Wendy
Everything fun in life is attached to food!

Marc David
Yeah, yeah. So it’s understandable. And that’s where we need to learn how to branch out. And truly, the more you branch out with your pleasures, and your fun things, and your forbidden pleasures, the more you can branch out, more options you have. And the more you can fulfill that part of you, that wants to be a kid and wants to go out and have fun. And once you break your own rule, and wants to have it the way you want it. So it might just be an ongoing question of what else can do that for, you other than food? Because that part of you wants to be fed.

Wendy
Mm hmm. Yeah, in pretty much every aspect of my life, like I’ve traveled to every continent and like I am a seeker you know, I want to read books. I want to see the planet, like I’m constantly feeding myself with knowledge and experiences and it all lines up. Yeah.

Marc David
Yeah. Good for you. That’s how you do it. And then when it comes to food, you let that adult in, you just step in. And notice, Oh, little Wendy in me wants to party. She wants to party and it’s understandable. Thing is, it’s not wrong, you always gotta understand it’s not wrong, if you make it wrong, then you create a battle. And that little girl in you is just gonna go have her way. So you learn how to kind of nurture her a little bit, you learn how to acknowledge her, without necessarily giving her the thing she wants in the moment. Yeah.

Wendy
I like it, that’s really good. That’s very eye-opening. That’s why you’re the best Marc I’ve always known you’re the best.

Marc David
You’re very sweet. You’re very kind. You know, I really think you’re on the right track. And sometimes, we just need to reframe, particularly when it comes to a weight loss journey, just reframe what that journey is for us. So let’s not think of it as you needing to lose weight. Let’s think of it as you finding your natural weight, arriving at your natural weight. And you do that as you start to become your best self more and more. Your more natural self, your more natural self is explorative. Your more natural self wants fun, wants goodies, has a big appetite for life. Great! So let’s just have the big appetite for life and start to distinguish appetite for food.

Wendy
Yes!

Marc David
You can still have a big appetite for food but you learn how to feed yourself in a way where you get more satisfied. Which might mean I don’t know what it means for you, it might mean being more present when you’re eating some of your fun foods. It might mean branching out and having a little bit more forbidden foods for you now and again, to really fulfill that part of you. So food doesn’t feel like the one part of your life that’s like a prison.

Wendy
Mmm Yeah

Marc David
And you downsize your expectations of what you think food is going to do for health.

Wendy
Yeah, that’s a big one.

Marc David
Food does affect our health. It does that. I’m not saying it doesn’t, it does. But it’s easy to put it on this lofty place. And think if I eat perfectly, then I will be disease-free and symptom-free and live forever. And it doesn’t happen.

Wendy
No, but I know you’re right. I mean, I read your book years ago, and my dad has always been that proof that kept reminding me of everything you said, that like, he’s really happy while he’s eating his grilled cheese and he doesn’t have any stress. And he just enjoys it. And he thinks it’s fabulous that he can do that every day. And it’s perfect proof. So I mean, I don’t know that I’m gonna eat a grilled cheese every day. But it does validate what you’re saying.

Marc David
Yeah, so it’s you finding yourself and you finding your way in this. Nobody else’s way is going to be right for you but yours. Because you’ve accumulated enough knowledge and enough wisdom to choose what your menu is going to look like. How often and what? You’ve earned that right.

Wendy
Yeah, thank you

Marc David
So it’s it’s been a good conversation for you?

Wendy
Oh, so good!

Marc David
I’m so glad.

Wendy
Yeah. Thank you so much! You’re a blessing to the world. Marc. Thank you.

Marc David
I appreciate your kind words. Wendy, thank you so much.

Wendy
Take care.

Marc David
And thanks, everybody for tuning in. Take care, everyone.