As researchers have discovered, there’s a profound connection between gut and brain health. So much so that “the gut-brain axis” is now established as one of the most important and complex systems in the body.
The gut is often referred to as a “second brain” due it’s separate but interconnected system of over 100 million neurons. This complex system, the enteric nervous system, is responsible for all the major digestive functions including enzyme production, nutrient absorption, and elimination.
What’s fascinating is that research is now revealing the intricate relationship between our gut, and our thoughts, mood, emotions.
When we feel happy, our body naturally goes into parasympathetic dominance (the relaxation response), and our absorption and elimination typically improves. Conversely, when we’re under stress, the gut feels it – and the normal, healthy functions of our digestive system can become impaired.
Many of us are aware of how various stressors, like work or marital challenges, can make us feel physically unwell. Perhaps you get heartburn or a knot in your stomach after a big fight, for example.
But what most people do not realize is that our challenges with food and body can become yet another source of stress.
For example, when we worry about our weight or feel self-hate for our body for years on end – this creates a powerful neurohormonal cascade in our physiology that can cause gastrointestinal issues like constipation or acid reflux – and ironically, can also lead to further weight gain.
Over time, sustained negative emotions can wreak havoc on every part of our body, but the gut is often the first place that we’ll experience illness.
So, in this episode of the podcast, Marc David works with 52-year old Hulya on the important topic of how we learn to manage stress and regulate our emotions, so that the gut can experience the most optimal conditions for health.
Additionally, Marc takes a special look at anxiety, constipation, and midsection weight gain, and some of the hidden wisdom these conditions have for us.
We’d love to hear your own experience or thoughts about this episode – please drop us a comment below!
P.S. Interested in learning more about emotional eating and finally finding freedom with food? Would you like some deeper wisdom and guidance in your emotional eating journey? If so, we’d love for you to learn more about our special program, The Emotional Eating Breakthrough. This is a 10-week online transformational experience that’s designed to help you finally find peace with food. You’ll learn from the originator of the field of Eating Psychology, Marc David – and you’ll be guided through a true mind, body, heart and soul approach combining the best of psychology, science, and personal development. The powerful tools and techniques you’ll discover in the program address the root cause of why we emotionally eat, forever changing your relationship with food.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Understanding the Emotions Behind Our Emotional Eating – In Session with Marc David
Marc David
Welcome, everybody. I’m Marc David, founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating. We are back in the Psychology of Eating Podcast. I’m with Hülya today. Welcome Hülya!
Hülya
Yeah, thank you.
Marc David
Yeah, I’m glad you’re here. So, here’s how this works. You and I get to meet for the first time, and this is our session together to see if we can help move you forward. If you could wave your magic wand and get whatever you wanted with food or body, what would that be for you? What’s your big wish?
Hülya
When you say magic, it just takes me to…almost like a fantasy. My inner knowing tells me that I really want to feel light and flexible in my body. I picture the movie Avatar when I say “light and flexible”. I really just want to have this light and flexible body. It doesn’t sound very realistic, but that’s my inner desire once you put “magic” in the word.
Marc David
A light and flexible body. Hülya, tell me: where are you from?
Hülya
I live in London, but I am originally from Turkey.
Marc David
All right, great. So, does lighter mean less weight for you?
Hülya
Yeah, that comes as a conclusion. However, it’s about more than just a kilogram on the scale. It’s about really feeling light inside and being more expansive in my physical body. Of course, that includes the kilograms on the scale.
Marc David
How much weight would you like to lose?
Hülya
I think initially about six kilograms. That’s something within my boundaries, but anything beyond that feels like it’s not within my boundaries at the moment.
Marc David
How long have you been wishing to lose that amount of weight?
Hülya
Since the beginning of this year. I was six kilogram less a couple of years ago. I have this window of weight where I go down and up within that scale. I’ve been six kilograms less many times, but I can’t go beyond that limit.
Marc David
When you lose that six kilograms, do you feel lighter?
Hülya
Yes, but not as light as I am in dreams or in my fantasies. So, I think to myself: “oh, it’s just not a reality for me”, and I just bounce back again.
Marc David
When you say “bounce back again”, do you mean that your weight goes up, or that you start feeling heavier?
Hülya
First, my old eating habits and patterns start kicking in. Then gradually, I start feeling heavier and heavier around my gut area. After awhile, it starts to get stagnant and feels heavy.
Marc David
So, before this last two years, has weight ever been a concern for you?
Hülya
Well, I’ve never been really thin or slim though weight has always been on my mind. I’ve tried many diets and different things, and so it’s been an on and off part of my life.
Marc David
Are you in a relationship?
Hülya
Not at the moment, no.
Marc David
Do you have children?
Hülya
I have a grown son.
Marc David
Congratulations, and how old is he?
Hülya
20 at the moment.
Marc David
Yay. Are you interested in being in a relationship?
Hülya
Oh, yeah. Yes.
Marc David
Can you describe what you mean when you think of feeling lighter? I think I know what you mean, but can you put more words around that? “When I feel lighter…here’s what it’s going to look and feel like…here’s who I’m going to be when I lose this weight and feel lighter.” Can you describe this new person?
Hülya
Physically, I don’t want to have this heaviness in my gut area. I want to feel more neutral or flexible. I tend to hold a lot of things in my bowels, and suffer from constipation. I can physically feel heaviness around my tummy. That’s one thing. On the emotional side, I feel like I keep myself in survival mode. So, when I say I’m “light”, it’s like I’m not in survival mode, and it feels like I’m beyond that. That’s how it feels to me. It’s almost like flying in life or flowing in life.
Marc David
What happens in your life specifically that might cause you to fall into that survival kind of thinking, or survival way of feeling and being?
Hülya
It’s really small things. It doesn’t have to be big. I consciously notice that my nervous system goes into contraction. That survival mechanism kicks in, and my old pattern of eating and behaving kicks in. It becomes almost unmanageable when I’m there. I end up in a very narrow-minded kind of rigid style of eating just trying to hold myself together which leads me to overeating. It feels like I’m just flying away from being flexible and light.
Marc David
So, little stressful things happen in life and put you in survival until you find yourself overeating…what does overeating look like for you?
Hülya
I consider myself quite a healthy eater, actually. However, I do tend to eat a lot. In those moments, I physically need to feel that it fills my stomach. So, I can have lots of soup, but it just doesn’t have the same effect. It’s almost like I need to feel that physical fullness in my body. So, overeating means really feeling myself.
Marc David
Yes. What a great observation. I think for all of us, overeating can mean different things. There are different reasons why we might do that, and for you, overeating helps you feel: “oh, I’m fulfilled, I’m satisfied. I have food in my body, and now I’m feeling good. I’m feeling complete.” It’s almost like you need enough physical food in your body so that you can go: “ohh, okay, that feels like I’ve eaten.”
Hülya
That’s the initial feeling; the orgasmic physical feeling that I have when I’ve eaten. But afterwards, it starts evolving to other places like when you cannot eliminate it or when your body feels stuck when you wake up in the morning. Yeah, then it’s it’s a different story.
Marc David
Have you ever been treated for constipation? Do you do anything specific or take certain supplements?
Hülya
Yeah, I’ve been working with a functional medicine practitioner, and I’m on this SIBO protocol at the moment. I’m on the second half of the protocol, and I’m just going through different stages.
Marc David
How’s that working for you so far?
Hülya
It’s working. I feel like I’m at about 40% progress, but I still have a long way to go. It’s only supported by supplements and by diet, but I feel like there’s something more for me that I need to explore. It’s not enough.
Marc David
Okay, so let’s do that. Let’s explore what else there can be. There’s an interesting picture going on here. There’s a part of you that wants to feel lighter which is, in part, emotional and also about having less weight. The feeling of heaviness is about your tendency to overeat which initially feels good, but then starts to feel heavy and leads to constipation. Then, when you’re constipated, you literally feel heavy because your gut isn’t functioning properly. I’m glad you’re working on a medical and nutritional level to help solve that because those are two of the pillars of working with constipation. Another pillar for working with constipation is to explore our emotional world- what’s happening inside? You used the word “flow”. Part of it is asking the questions: how do I flow more in my life? How do I let go in my life? In a strange way, the ability to just let go helps us resolve constipation. The body lets go naturally, but what can happen when we get stressed, is we can hold on; we can brace ourselves; we can contract. When we contract because of stress, anxiety, or upset, it’s harder for the body to do its job of letting go. It almost seems like your elimination might be the weaker link in your body. When you’re feeling stressed, anxious, or upset, that’s where that stress impacts you. Does that make sense for you so far?
Hülya
Totally. Even now, I am really conscious of what’s going on in my body. Even with the smallest stressors, the first part of my body that gets contracted is my gut. If I change my location, if I travel, it can really take some time for my bowels to come back. My human design chart says that the gut feeling is my center. So, it’s my weakest and probably also my strongest part, but I cannot optimize it because I have so many things going on at the moment.
Marc David
Yes. You know, sometimes there’s not a clear answer to these things because if there was a clear, simple answer, you would have found it already. So, we have to explore different possibilities. How old are you right now?
Marc David
Okay, so you’re not 22 anymore, you’re not 32 anymore…and as the body gets older, in many ways, the body also gets smarter. As it gets older, it has more experience. The immune system has more experience. The nervous system has more experience. Tthe body can really get better and smarter in many ways and, as we age, the body can also get weaker. Part of what might be helpful for you is to begin to really expand and develop a new relationship with your gut, and with your midsection. Think of your gut as a relationship and as its own person. Your gut, your midsection, your digestion, your elimination…all of it has a personality. The gut is the part of you that helps you feel satisfied. It says: “oh, there’s enough food in here. I feel good!” or “oh, I really liked this food!” The guts the part of you that breaks everything down and that extracts energy and nutrition. The gut is very feeling. That’s why we say, at least in the English language: “I had a gut feeling about that person.” We say we have ” a gut feeling” because there’s a tremendous amount of intelligence in the gut. There’s a separate yet interconnected nervous system in the gut called the enteric nervous system. There are as many nerve cells in your gut as there are in your spinal cord; over 100 million nerve cells. So, there’s a tremendous amount of intelligence in the gut. There’s a tremendous amount of feeling in the gut. Our gut feels. That’s why we say I had “a gut feeling” rather than an “elbow feeling” or “a kidney feeling” about somebody. We say, “I have a gut feeling.”
Hülya
52.
Marc David
It might be a good time in your life for you to expand your relationship with that part of your body. I know you want to feel lighter there, and I know you want to feel full without having to feel heavy. Those are all completely legitimate desires. Now that you have that wish, one of the ways to get there is to learn the language of your gut and understand what it wants. Meaning, when you tell me that every time there’s a little bit of change, or some travel, it’s easy to feel upset in your gut, you consider how to care for it more through change and travel. How do you pay attention to it more? How do you calm it down? Instead of the gut being the enemy, or the place where something is wrong with you, how do you make better friends with it? There’s a place where your gut, and your midsection, just wants more love. How does that land for you when I say that?
Hülya
It really touches me. Some of the things you said I already knew, but it hadn’t yet landed in me. It’s only now that it’s really sinking in for me. What’s opening up for me is that my body is almost like working in two different sections: the upper body and the lower body. My mind takes over, and when the gut has something to say, it’s almost like I’m numbing it, and I don’t want to hear it. If there’s something major, then okay…let’s focus on it, fix it and get it over with. That’s my relationship with my gut. Rather than trying to find the flow, I’m just noticing there’s this inner war in me between my mind and my gut, and I just ignore my gut. Then, whenever there’s something major, I just take it as a problem to fix and get rid of rather than building up that relationship with my gut.
Marc David
Yes, that is so important. I’m so glad you’re seeing that, and I’m so glad you’re saying that. The approach that you’re taking, is the approach that you were taught. So, it’s not like you’re doing anything wrong. That’s the approach that we’re taught: something’s wrong, fix it. Something’s not working right, just power through it. That’s not how the body is wanting us to be in relationship with it. I’m just getting the sense that because you are such a feeling, sensitive, and intuitive person, that your gut is talking to you in its own language. It has its own language just like your heart has its own language which is different from your head. Your gut has its own language that is different from any other body part. It’s a center of intelligence. It’s a center of feeling.
Marc David
I think it would be really good to start to, in a way, channel your gut and really listen to what it’s asking of you. It’s probably asking of you a lot of subtle things like: notice me, care for me, slow down, touch me, massage me, take me for a walk, do some deep breathing as opposed to fix me. It’s almost like you’re allowing your gut to have its own consciousness and its own emotionality as you respond to its emotional nature. When your son was young and small, and felt nervous or anxious, did you say to him: “stop being so nervous! stop being so anxious! How can we fix your nervousness and your anxiousness?” No, you’d be a good mama. You’d give him a hug. You’d see what he’s nervous and anxious about, and you’d try to support him and help him.
Hülya
Yes.
Marc David
So, it’s the same with your midsection. There’s a place where if I’m trying to fix it, I’m almost being separate from it. I’m almost pushing it away, and I’m making it into a thing that can be fixed, like a broken car or something.
Hülya
Yes. I even get angry. I take it even further and feel almost humiliated. I think: “It’s almost like I’ve got this outdated car which is not up-to-date in its technology. Sometimes, I just get so frustrated with my body and with my gut that they’re not updated or working well enough.
Marc David
Yes, and that’s totally understandable. You’re human, and you want your body to work. If something’s not working in your body, I promise you, you will be frustrated. And at some point, it’s good to come around and start to listen. You’re already doing great things to help fix a potential imbalance while working with a natural and functional medicine practitioner. And at the same time, there’s often a deeper level going on because the body lives downstream of the soul. The body responds to who we are at a very deep level. You’re a sensitive person, and so it’s good to acknowledge that, and to care for yourself. I think in a lot of ways, your gut lets you know how sensitive you are. Your gut lets you know: “Hey, Hulya, I need you. I need you to love me, I need you to slow down with me. I need you to really listen and feel what I’m feeling.”
Hülya
Yes, and what I do is just: “okay, let’s get some favorite food and just numb you down gut, so that I don’t hear you. Let’s calm you down with food so that I don’t need to listen to you.”
Marc David
Right, which is no different than when a child is upset, and we just say: “okay, here’s an ice cream, stop crying. Here’s candy, stop crying.”
Hülya
Of course, that’s what I learned as a child and how I was treated with my favorite foods. I took it as love.
Marc David
Yeah, and it was a form of love. Our parents are trying to help us by doing the best that they know how. “Oh, my child is upset…ice cream is going to make them feel good…sugar is going to make them feel good.” Sometimes, that’s all our parents knew to do or that was the best that they could do. They were doing their best. So, now you’re the adult and food can no longer satisfy and take care of your emotional needs. You can take care of your emotional needs just by listening and pausing. You probably have the tools already. It’s just really pausing and listening. Asking your gut to talk to you like: “what do you have to tell me? What do you need from me? What are you asking of me right now?” It could be something very simple: slow down with me, rest with me, take care of me, touch me. As you begin to make friends with your gut and your belly, it will help you feel lighter. If we’re at war with anything or anyone, we don’t feel lightness with them. We feel heaviness with them. If I’m angry or upset at somebody, or if I’m trying to fix someone in my life, it’s a little heavy.
Hülya
Yeah.
Marc David
What do you think your gut is asking of you? What are some of the things, that maybe your gut is asking of you, that you haven’t necessarily always listened to?
Hülya
During the day especially, when I’m working, my gut is telling me to slow down and have breaks. I often end up in the kitchen between meetings, and I need some time for myself rather than just grabbing something and going back to the next meeting. I think it’s more about slowing down and really seeing my own needs in between working.
Hülya
So, are you working from home?
Hülya
Most of the time, but not all.
Marc David
So, you have some of that luxury to be in your own space, and to take that pause to do some self-nurturing where you can be in that flow that you want to be in to feel more flexible and lighter. That’s what it means to be in a flow. So, let’s start to do these things that you say you want right now. In the end, you say that you want to feel lighter, flexible, and in a flow. Flexibility means: I’m not rigid. I’m not constantly doing the same thing. Flexibility means: “oh, I can take a break. I can take time.” Being in a flow means noticing that your body, mind, heart and soul sometimes just need you to take time for you at any point in the day.
Hülya
Yes.
Marc David
We’re living in a world, Hulya, that is so fast. There are so many demands on us. There are so many things that we have to do and so many details. We lose some of our naturalness, and it’s easy to lose connection with ourselves. I’m in front of the computer, I’m doing my work, I’m doing my job, I’m doing my task, and if my body’s hurting or it’s not working, well, then I’m trying to fix it! I’m being mad because it’s broken or I’m being upset because it’s broken. I’m not liking my body because it doesn’t look the way I want it to look. All of a sudden we’re fighting ourselves, and we’re not in our flow. So, whatever way you can reclaim your naturalness and your true nature will help. Ask your soul what it wants, and oftentimes the soul talks through the body.
Hülya
Yes.
Marc David
So, what are some of the practical things you could see yourself doing as a way to treat your gut better, get to know it better, and take care of it better?
Hülya
I’ve already been introducing some physical activities into my life, which is associated with pleasure for me. I’ve started dancing, and that really helps. So, I dance every week. I need to introduce more physical stuff rather than just sitting down doing mental work. Maybe introduce more massage sessions into my life, make it more regular for myself.
Marc David
Do you ever do any breathing…just breathing into your gut?
Hülya
I have had breathing sessions, but maybe that’s something I need to go back to.
Marc David
Sometimes that can be very helpful because when our midsection is tensed or stressed, it can literally go into a localized stress response. Localized stress response could mean that if you’re under stress maybe the neck tightens up. It’s just where the stress lands. For some people, their eyes squint when they’re under a lot of stress. For some people, their throat constricts. For a lot of people, the midsection constricts, the digestive organs constrict, elimination constricts. When there’s localized stress, touch or breathing into that part of the body are great techniques to relax. When you consciously send breath into your midsection, you send signals of relaxation. A long, slow, deep breath gives your midsection the signal that you’re safe and you’re relaxed. If I’m breathing like a stressed person: shallow, arrhythmic, and infrequent, then I’m going to feel stressed. If I start to breathe like a relaxed person: regular, rhythmic and deep, it sends a whole different signal into the body. It’s such a simple tool and a subtle tool, but it’s very, very powerful. That part of the body wants to unwind. Movement will help it an unwind. Even just walking can help stress in the midsection unwind, but breathing especially. Just taking notice of that part of your body can help it unwind.
Marc David
I want to suggest something else. If I’m trying to change my gut because my midsection is where I gain weight, and I’ve determined that I don’t want to gain weight in my midsection, that’s fine. It’s fine to have a personal preference. But what often happens here on planet Earth is that people have been very conditioned to believe something toxic. That is: if your gut has any belly fat on it, then somehow you’re a bad person, and that this is really bad. So, it’s easy to go to war with our body. It’s easy for mind and gut to separate when the mind is saying: “you’re not good, you’re not right, you’re not okay, you’re kind of the enemy, there’s body fat there.” You’re fighting a part of yourself, and you can’t win when you fight yourself. So, what I’m going to suggest is that in order to change the gut in any way, the first place we need to start is where we’re at right now. This means that you accept where you’re at right now and try to be a little more loving towards that part of you, as if your young child was sick. You wouldn’t hate them because they’re sick. You would love them even more. If they broke a bone, you would help them love that part of their body and take care of it. It feels to me like your gut is just wanting some good old fashioned love. You’re smiling like that lands for you.
Hülya
Yeah, it feels like I’m smiling, but at the same time it feels so sad. I get a lot of feedback that I’m a very loving person yet I don’t know how to love my own guts. Externally, I can be a very loving person, but when it comes to my gut, there is so much separation, anger, resentment, and numbness. This is where I am at the moment if I’m being honest. There’s so much separation, so much frustration, so much anger. Everything but love at the moment.
Marc David
Let’s reframe that just a little bit. I’m sure that all the people that tell you that you’re a loving person are correct and accurate. And, none of us are perfect. There are certain places where even if we’re loving people, we’re still learning. You know how to be a loving person, and there are certain places where you’re still learning. You’re still young in those places, and you’re learning how to love a certain part of your body. You get to use some of the tools that you use to love other people. Try to look at it as this is your relationship with your body, and it’s just being a great teacher for you. There’s nothing wrong with you. I get that it’s frustrating. I get that you might say to yourself: “wait a second…I’m a loving person, so I should be able to love anything, in anyone, in any part of me.” But, it doesn’t work like that. You get to learn how to love something that’s previously been a little more un-lovable for you. That’s just your classroom. That’s your workshop.
Hülya
Yes, I’ve got my direction now. I’m not there, but I can see the door, and I can feel it. It’s really landed in me now.
Marc David
Oh, I’m so glad. I’m really glad. It’s so important. You know, I’m a fanatic when it comes to all types of functional, natural, and regenerative medicine. I use all the latest tools and techniques, and I spend my time, energy, money and resources learning about these things and treating myself. What a lot of people don’t realize though, is that there is also a whole other dimension to healing that just goes beyond all that which we oftentimes must include. It’s the more emotional, spiritual, soulful dimension or part of us that needs to be in relationship with our body in a different way. I think this is just a particular soul lesson for you that you’re learning.
Hülya
I totally get it. My soul lessons were over my relationships, my marriage, and my business. In a way, they were complete at least for a chapter, but now I see at the moment that my spiritual journey is through my gut; through my own body. That’s a new tool, and a new direction for me. I appreciate it, and I really get it now. I used to hear all the things: “the body’s our temple, it’s sacred…blah, blah.” But now I get how it’s gonna’ work for me.
Marc David
Yes. It’s not easy to turn around quickly, but what needs to be done is simple in concept. More listening, more pausing, more time, more love. When I say listening, I mean to listen to what your gut is telling you, and being open to it. In just the moment when you’re in criticism of your body, catch yourself. That’s the moment where you want to just put your hands on your belly and send some love there. You can say: “even though this isn’t perfect, even though this is not where I want it to be. I still love you. I still love this part of me even though it’s not perfect.” There’s plenty of people in your life that you love who are not perfect, but you can still love them. How are you feeling about this conversation, Hulya?
Hülya
It’s given me some hope, a new direction, a new opening. What hits me in the back of my mind is this ancestral pattern in my family. My aunt’s, my mom, my grandma…they all seem to have a similar belly and that’s really frustrating. It’s like I’m just repeating what is in them, and it’s a vicious circle. In terms of the gut congestion, I just feel this similar pattern in all of them even though they’re probably not conscious of it; the shape of the body, and the fat around the tummy. That kind of rises in me: how does the ancestral or the gene stuff come into play here? It feels like a vicious circle to me.
Marc David
Well, it’s a mystery. The truth is, yes, our ancestral lineage impacts us genetically. We are the genetic products of our parents, grandparents, great grandparents, but we’re also connected to them on an emotional level, a spiritual level of soul, and a soul level. There are certain lessons that come down through our family lineage, certain challenges that are less genetic than they are epigenetic; challenges that are more personal. The beautiful thing is, by healing this in yourself, in a strange way, you’re helping heal your lineage. Healing works in all directions. You help the people that come after you, and you help the people that came before you. That’s my belief. So, instead of saying it’s a vicious circle, consider that it’s part of what life has given us to help us heal and transform. A lot of times people look around them at a crazy world and they go: “how do I fix the world?” You can’t fix the world, but you can start by changing yourself. That’s hard enough, but changing yourself is tremendous. Once you’re able to start giving that part of your body and your life, more love, more awareness, more acceptance, more consciousness, you’re radiating that out into the field. So many people have this exact same challenge that you’re talking about. It’s not just your lineage. It’s not just the women in your family. This is a challenge that impacts so many human beings. I’m in this conversation quite a bit. This is more of a planetary wide phenomenon, and we heal it one person at a time. When one of us heals, it invisibly impacts all of us.
Hülya
Yes, that gives me hope.
Marc David
I really appreciate this conversation Hulya, and I really appreciate you. I think we did some good work today.
Hülya
Yes, it has been great work. Thank you very much, Marc. It’s really given me a great sense of direction. It’s a big opening. I really appreciate that. Thank you very much.
Marc David
You’re so welcome, Hulya. Thanks everybody for tuning in. Take care, my friends.
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