Does Food Hold Power Over You? – In Session with Marc David

Does Food Hold Power Over You? – In Session with Marc David

Marc David
Welcome everybody. I’m Marc David, founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating. We’re in the Psychology of Eating Podcast. I’m with Paulien today. Welcome Paulien!

Paulien
Thank you, Marc! How are you?

Marc David
Very well. I’m so glad we’re doing this. I’m glad you’re here. And for those people who are new to the podcast, Pauline and I are going to have a client session and see if we can do some good work together. So Pauline, if you could wave your magic wand and have whatever you wanted with food and body, what would that be for you?

Paulien
If I could have whatever I wanted, it would be to liberate myself from the grip that food still has on me and to become a natural, relaxed eater.

Marc David
Mm, so it’s a wonderful wish, for sure. So what grip does food have on you?

Paulien
Well, on the one hand, I have a fear of food, and the fear of food is connected to the fear of gaining weight. I’ve lost a lot of weight, and I’m very eager and desperate to keep it that way. But on the other hand, I’m also, I would say, obsessed by food! And so I feel I’m in a grip when it comes to food.

Marc David
So it sounds like to me, the main fear is I’m going to gain weight, and food’s going to be the reason.

Paulien
Exactly, that’s it!

Marc David
How do you feel about the weight that you are right now?

Paulien
I’m fine where I am. Going up and down a little bit, but in general, I’m fine. Even though there’s always that little voice inside that tells me, you can do better. You can lose some weight.

Marc David
How long have you been in this particular place where you know I’m fine, my weight goes up and down a little, but I’m basically good.

Paulien
I’d say for at least five to 10 years.

Marc David
Ah! So for five to 10 years, you’ve been on a good streak?

Paulien
I have been. But as I said at the same time, I don’t feel free. I’m happy with where I am from the outside, but from the inside, I still feel food still has this power over me.

Marc David
What are some of the things you tell yourself when food is having power over you. How do you language it to yourself?

Paulien
How I would language that is that, on the one hand, as I mentioned, I’m afraid to eat whatever I want, so I still have this list of acceptable and not acceptable food items. But on the other hand, I obsess about food, and I can still lose myself in a lot of food every now and then and then, I’m afraid I’ll gain weight

Marc David
When you say I can lose myself in food, what does that mean?

Paulien
That means that when I’m alone, I can still have these short binges. They’re smaller than they used to be, but it’s as if I need them to relax. I need them, and that’s what I mean. It still has this power over me, and then the fear that I’m gaining weight!

Marc David
Describe a short binge that you might have. What could that look like?

Paulien
A short binge, it’s always when I’m alone, I eat a lot, I’m addicted to nuts like almonds and hazelnuts, but I’ve also developed a habit that I really don’t like, is that instead of swallowing everything, and again, when I’m alone and I’m very ashamed of this, I tend to spit it out. So for me, that is just another way of binge eating, but without ingesting it, because I’m afraid I will gain weight. So it could go on for half an hour until I’m really done and I move on.

Marc David
How often does it happen for you?

Paulien
A couple of times a week.

Marc David
So it usually happens when you’re alone. And did you mention a time of the day that it might happen?

Paulien
I haven’t mentioned it yet, but it’s usually in the evening.

Marc David
And what are you thinking to yourself before you go into that binge moment? What’s going on inside?

Paulien
I think, on the one hand, I’m looking forward to it because it’s my secret time. At the same time, I think it has to do with a bit of boredom as well, and it’s become kind of a ritual on a lot of evenings that I look forward to, and at the same time I hate it.

Marc David
I love that you identified that it’s become a ritual. You know, it’s interesting how the word ritual and spiritual are so similar. There’s something about ritual that’s extremely empowering. Ritual can be very beautiful. You know, getting married that’s a special ritual, or going to church on Sunday, that’s a ritual. Couples have their rituals. Individuals have their rituals. A birthday is a ritual. So rituals at their best, give power and make us feel good and make us feel more whole and make us feel more connected. When my ritual is a little more spiritual and connects me to something bigger than myself. Rituals can be problematic when it’s the kind of ritual, like for many people who are addicted to drugs, the drug use is a ritual. Shooting up is a ritual. Snorting something literally becomes a ritual. All the paraphernalia that people use is part of a ritual. Drinking alcohol can be a ritual, positive or negative. So I think there might be a helpful clue in there for you, because in part what you’re interested is, I think you want to be free but here is this ritual that still somehow works for you!

Paulien
Exactly. That’s exactly it.

Marc David
It still works for you in a certain way. What I heard you say is you look forward to it. It’s nice to look forward to something. I don’t care what it is. It’s good to look forward to something that you’re looking forward to. This is going to taste good. This is going to feel good. It’s my secret. Having a secret is kind of fun! This is mine.

Paulien
Yeah, it’s fun, but I really don’t like it, and I don’t seem to be able to let it go. It’s something that’s mine, and it helps me to feel good in the short term, but then in the longer term, it doesn’t make me feel good!

Marc David
So I’m just trying to identify, I completely hear what you’re saying, but I just want to make sure that you can really embrace what it is about this ritual that’s still compelling for you, just so we can see, just so we can notice, what’s compelling for you about it. What else could you think of, if anything, that drives you to this ritual?

Paulien
So when I think of this ritual and this bad habit, when I’m thinking of trying to let it go, it fills me with fear, like, Oh, my goodness, what else can I do to fill this time? And I know it’s nonsense, because I know how to fill the time, but it’s as if I need that fix, and I don’t know what to do if I don’t have it. And I’ve been thinking a lot about this, and I think there is a fear of being successful. And what am I going to do if I’m successful? It’s as if I’m afraid of a certain power that I’m hiding or suppressing.

Marc David
I think that’s a factor for sure, absolutely. And I think the what else? What else would I do? I think that’s an important question, because as a way to create a shift, it’s helpful to ask the question, Is there something I can begin to do alongside this ritual that might even potentially be a substitute, something that I could look forward to? Something that gives me a little bit of excitement, and that’s good for me, is there something I can invent, that I could look forward to that gives me a little bit of excitement? That’s mine!

Paulien
Alongside the eating, you mean? Or instead of?

Marc David
Both. I don’t want to scare you too much and say, Oh, this has to replace it.

Paulien
I think, Marc, I think it comes down to using my creativity. I love writing and to be creative with words. And I think that is something that I’ve been suppressing. And I think it’s hidden deep inside, and I would love to access it. And it’s difficult, because you have to sit down for it and be concentrated and do the work but that’s actually what I would love to replace it with. I just don’t know if it gives me the kick…

Marc David
Yes, it might not give you the kick, because right now, part of the kick that you’re getting is the thing you’re doing is, quote unquote, bad! It’s bad, it’s illegal, it’s against your rules.

Paulien
Yep!

Marc David
And there’s the part of you that is getting a little bit of a rush from breaking the rules. It’s the young girl in you, it’s the teenager in you, it’s the rebel in you. Like, I’m breaking this rule. I’m not supposed to do this. I’m doing it when I’m alone. i.e. in secret. Nobody’s around, you’re breaking the rules, and you’re being teenager Pauline!

Paulien
Yes, absolutely true. In addition to that, I think I’m also using it to not be in my body, to numb myself.

Marc David
I want to acknowledge that we bring all these voices with us. We bring all these archetypes, these personalities within us. We bring them into our life. There’s still the child in you, there’s still the young girl in you, there’s still the rebel in you. There’s still the part of you that wants excitement. There’s still the part of you that wants to break rules. That’s all okay. It’s good to know that. It’s good to be able to acknowledge that, yeah, there’s this part of me that wants to break the rules, part of me that I’m a bad girl! And I want to say that there’s a place where that’s okay, and there’s a place where I would love for you to be able to just embrace that part of you. Because even for the purpose of this conversation, and after we finish this conversation, I would love for you to take a few weeks and stop fighting this part of you, literally stop fighting it, and start to embrace who she is. She’s a teenager, she’s a rebel. She wants to break the rules, she wants to do it in secret, and this is exciting. And yeah, I know there’s another part of you that feels guilty. I I totally get that! But I want you to be able to really feel this other part of you, because it’s wanting something from you. It’s wanting a little bit of attention, it’s wanting your acceptance. It’s wanting you to integrate her into your life more.

Paulien
But in fact, I see that rebel and that teenage girl or that little girl as something that I shouldn’t have. I think it’s bad,

Marc David
Exactly.

Paulien
So how do I embrace it?

Marc David
You agree that it’s not bad. You agree that this is you and this is a part of you, and that you are doing this. It seems to be against your own wishes.

But let’s take a different strategy, because right now, whatever strategy you’re doing to get rid of this, hasn’t been working. So the strategy you’ve been trying is something like, oh, I don’t like this. This makes me feel guilty, but I really want to do this, but it feels bad and it makes me feel guilty, but I really want to do it.

Paulien
Exactly.

Marc David
So basically, that’s the pattern that gets continued. So I want to interrupt that pattern by saying that, let’s see if we can, for a couple of weeks, take away the guilt and acknowledge for two weeks, couple of times a week maybe, I’m going to do this behavior, and when I do it, I’m going to fully own it. Meaning, I want you to be present when you do the ritual. I want you to be there, like literally, be present. If you’re going to chew it and swallow it, great if you’re going to chew it and spit it out, great. Taste it. Be there. Here I am. I’m alone now. I’m going to break the rule. This is the part of me that loves to break rules and see how much you can go with it. And I’m suggesting this because fighting it hasn’t helped you.

Paulien
No, it hasn’t. It’s exhausting, actually! This is very interesting. So what you’re saying is continue to do it, but do it mindfully, and accept it!

Marc David
Accept it and start to learn who this part of you is and stop fighting her and have compassion for her. Have compassion for her. Personally, I completely understand the part of you that would want to do that. I completely understand the party that wants to break your food rule, wants to be a bad girl, wants to just devour food that you’re really drawn to and do it in secret. And this is my secret and my thing, I totally get it. It’s fun. So until you can own that part of you, you’re going to be fighting it and fighting a part of us. It’s me against me. Nobody wins. You’re always going to lose in there. So I’m just saying there’s a place where this part of you needs you to embrace it. Now, hold that thought for a moment. I want to introduce another distinction here that may or may not be useful for you. When we were talking a few minutes ago about what else can you do. And you started talking about writing, and what I heard was, I need to express my voice.

Paulien
Yes.

Marc David
I just heard like throat chakra. I just heard voice me. I need to be me, and I need to just declare me and own me and be me and write what I want to write and say what I want to say. Doesn’t matter what anybody thinks about what you write, doesn’t matter what anybody thinks about what you say. Unfiltered. What does Pauline have to say, if she wasn’t filtering it? What often happens is, if I am afraid of my voice…So our voice is on one level, how we declare ourselves to the world. This is me. This is who I am. This is what I believe, this is my opinion, this is how I feel, this is what I like, this is what I don’t like. So our voice declares who we are. We are speaking ourselves into the world. And you know when you are speaking from your authentic voice, some people might not like you. Some people might really like you. We don’t know who’s going to think what. We don’t know if what you have to say goes against what your friends or your parents or your kids or your husband or anybody thinks. We don’t know.

So there’s a certain risk in being in contact with my voice and what feels like the truth of who I am and what I have to say and how I see the world. We could easily be afraid of that, because we’re kind of conditioned, I think, to be good girls and good boys and be obedient and don’t stand out from the crowd. And definitely don’t say something unpopular, because then we might lose out, the world might pull away its love. So if I’m afraid to speak my voice, I’m going to find a way to dampen it. Food binging is a way to dampen one’s voice. You are using food, or we can use food to stop our throat chakra, isn’t it fascinating how the same place that you and I declare ourselves like honey, I love you and oh, this is what I’m this is what I’m interested in. This is who I am. This. So the same part of us that expresses ourself into the world is also the same part of us that’s taking in food and munching it and having a good time and feeding ourselves, but food can also be used to dampen the voice. So there’s a part of you that when you’re doing this ritual, it’s dampening the voice of the queen in you. It’s dampening the voice of the wise woman in you. Now, the teenager or the rebel or the young woman in you who’s wanting to binge eat, she wants her voice to be heard as well. So what I’m saying is, let’s invite everybody to the table. Everybody gets a turn. Everybody gets a chance to have their voice heard.

So we know there’s the part of you that wants to speak your voice. Great! When you’re ready to you will. And you know you’re getting ready because, ah, this behavior doesn’t feel good anymore. This ritual doesn’t feel good anymore. I don’t want to do it. What else can I do? Oh, my God, I get really afraid when I think of what else can I do? Well, what else can I do? Well, here’s the what else. It can be equally as exciting to journal and write and see what comes out of you, if you are unfiltered, say whatever you want to say. How’s this all landing for you?

Paulien
I don’t know how you do it, but it this is landing exactly where it’s supposed to land. This is exactly what I have been feeling deep inside to to be heard, to share what I have to say with the world. I’m becoming less afraid of that as well, and I think that is exactly the point, and that at the same time, I’m dampening the voice by this behavior, and I’m really ready to let it go. The one thing that I still don’t know how to exactly do is to invite everyone to the table. Yes, I can invite the wise woman. And thanks to my coaching that I do, I’ve discovered more and more that wise woman. And I love it. I absolutely love it. This is the thing I need to do in this world. But how do I allow the space for that rebel, that teenage girl that also want to be heard, should I let her do the binges every now and then? Or how do I keep space for her?

Marc David
Yes, great question! So right now you mentioned that it’s only a few times a week maybe that you’re doing this ritual. So maybe a few other times during the week, let’s do this new ritual! On the days that you’re not doing the ritual that you kind of don’t want to do. On the days that you’re not doing a binge. Let’s do the wise woman ritual, and let’s just sit down and do that on the evenings that you know you’re not going to binge. I’m not interested in binging this evening not happening. It’s going to happen another day, not tonight, because it only happens a few times a week maybe. So let’s create this new ritual and see what happens for you. And do what you can do to make it an interesting ritual. Meaning, do you need to do it in your privacy? And what kind of privacy? Do you need to have music playing? What kind of lighting Do you want to light a candle? Something that makes it feel more more compelling to you, more interesting to you. Maybe you wear something that you don’t normally wear, that feels like a power outfit for you, or feels like your wise woman clothes, your power jewelry. Put some sacred objects near you, and start to invent a ritual that just works for you. That’s yours. Nobody has to know about it. It’s your ritual. Nobody’s judging it, because it’s yours! Nobody knows about it. You’re doing it in the comfort of your own room. So that’s its own universe.

And then if you feel the urge to have a binge experience, I’m suggesting that you use that as an opportunity to start to listen to that voice more and accept it and stop fighting it and actually get to know it.

Paulien
Yeah.

Marc David
This is one way, and to me, a very powerful way to transform certain rituals that we say don’t work for us, that we’re fighting, but we can’t successfully let them go, particularly when it comes to food! Because there’s something you’re wanting from that experience, there’s something you’re wanting from that binge. And if I’m fighting myself while I’m doing the experience, I’m kind of not getting the full value of it, and you’re not really learning about that part of you. So I’m saying I want you to start to love the rebel and the girl in you, and it doesn’t mean you’re going to be doing this behavior for the rest of your life. My guess is that as you slow it down and you stop fighting it, you start to take back the power. Because what you’ve said to me, the way you’ve languaged it, it feels like food has power over me,

A big way to reclaim that power is to learn how to slow down and be present during the very thing we say we don’t want to do. Because when you’re doing the thing you say you don’t want to do you’re doing it in secret, and you’re probably doing it a little bit fast, and you’re going a little bit unconscious, you’re going a little bit to sleep. So half of you is present and half of you is not. So I want all of you to be present, because if all of you is present, then you’re here, and you have more power because you’re here. All of you is here. If 5% of you is here, if I woke you up in the middle of the night and you’re sleepy, you’re not going to have a lot of power. You’re not very present because you’re not fully awake. No blame. That’s just the way it is. But if I’m in my waking day and I’m not fully present, a part of me is sleeping, I’m going to feel less powerful. I’m going to feel that things have power over me. I’m going to feel that food has power over me because all of me is not at the table. So we’re wanting to bring all of you to the table. Right.

Paulien
Yeah, I can see how bringing everyone to the table takes away the power that it has. And I decide who is at the table, and I take the power.

Marc David
Yes. And the way you do that is you start to first become a good host, and a good host stays present and pays attention, and you’re here and you slow down. And here’s your guest, the rebel inside of you, the one that wants to go on the binge. Okay, take a deep breath and let’s slow down. Whatever you do, do it slowly. Whatever you do, be present with it. Be aware. And when you’re eating, really get every bit of pleasure you can get out of it. Because the more present you are, the more you have the ability to continue to choose to be in that experience, and the more you have the ability to continue to choose not to. Because more of you is here. It’s as simple as that. Not easy. Takes practice and it takes being gentle with yourself, and it takes being compassionate with yourself, and it takes you allowing yourself to be not perfect. Yes, there’s this part of me that’s a real wise woman who can counsel other people and be very effective at it. And there’s this part of me that, gosh, I do these things I don’t want to do, but I can’t stop it.

Paulien
Right! And sometimes it confuses me, because how can I be both in the same time, you know, be support to other people, and I’m not even able to help myself.

Marc David
Welcome to planet earth. Welcome to the craziness of being a human being. I mean, think of it. You know this, you can, you can be of help to so many people, but it doesn’t mean you’re perfect. You can talk to your best friend when they’re having relationship problems or parenting problems or anything, and you can give them amazing advice, because you see them, and it’s not you. When it comes to viewing ourself, it’s a little harder. So this is why I’d like to say God made other people. It’s not just you on the planet, it’s not just me, because we help each other. So how could this be that I’m good in this one place and I’m not good in another place? Because that’s what being a human being looks like.

Paulien
And I think that is also related to perfectionism, because I still have a hard time accepting those pieces in me that are not perfect. And I think that goes back to the fear of gaining weight, because I have this image of myself that I have to be slim, and I cannot accept when I’m not that. So I think that’s, tell me if I’m wrong, but I think that’s how the perfectionism plays into this as well.

Marc David
Absolutely! Perfectionism is always going to be a toxic voice. It’s a viral voice. It’s a virus. It doesn’t serve us. It’s a soul killer, because it always sets the bar impossibly high. And the voice of perfectionism, quite frankly, it brutalizes us. It just crushes us. So I think it’s important to always remember that you and I, you didn’t invent perfectionism. You don’t own it. You can’t take responsibility for for being the originator of perfectionism. It’s a viral voice that we inherit when we’re born. Just being alive on planet Earth, one becomes susceptible to perfectionism. So it becomes our job if you have an illness, if you have a virus, if you have a bacterial infection, you didn’t invent that bacteria that’s infecting your body. You didn’t invent that virus, but now it’s your responsibility to deal with it. So okay, I didn’t invent this voice of perfectionism, but it’s my responsibility to deal with it, to respond to it, and to manage it so that it’s a smaller and smaller and smaller voice, and it’s not the person who sits at the head of my table. So this is where your wise woman comes in. Because it’s the wise woman in you that can see the perfectionist at work, and in any moment, can say, oh my goodness, that’s the voice of perfectionism speaking. That doesn’t work. I have to choose another thought in that moment. I have to choose another way of thinking in that moment, I have to choose to not entertain that voice. And it’s literally mind training. That’s what it is. It’s just training the mind to let go of an old habit that we inherited. So it takes practice. So there’s nothing wrong with you, and there’s nothing wrong with the fact that you can be really good in one area of your life and not so great in another area of your life. It’s just being human. So it’s just learning how to make that part of your religion, like part of your religion, part of your worldview, is like, oh, okay, I am strangely imperfect, just like everybody else. It’s joining the rest of humanity and letting go of that impossibly high bar.

Paulien
And I think Marc, at the root of everything, what you said is finding my voice, my own voice, and really lead with that. Because if I can do that, then I think perfectionism will be easier to dismiss, or it will be easier to embrace my imperfections.

Marc David
I believe so. I think that’s the key. The more your voice…How old are you at this stage your life?

Paulien
58

Marc David
So you are in the wise woman stage. And that’s where your soul wants to be, because that’s how it all works. When you’re a child, your soul wants to be a child. Five year olds don’t want to have adult responsibilities. They don’t want it, nor can they do it. It’s not how life works. It’s not how the soul unfolds. You need to be a child when you’re a child. You need to be a teenager when you’re a teenager. You need to be 25 when you’re 25. And when you’re 58 you need to be 58. And 58 is the birth of the Queen. It’s the wise woman. And those voices want to come out. And what could stop those voices, one thing that can stop those voices is when we let other voices sit at the head of the table.

Paulien
Yes.

Marc David
I’m going to let my little girl sit at the head of the table. I’m going to let my inner child sit at the head of the table. I’m going to let the brat in me sit at the head of the table. I’m going to let the rebel in me sit at the head of the table. Yeah, I’ll let them do it every once in a while, but that’s it, every now and then. Otherwise, it’s the adult in me, it’s the king in me that gets to sit at the head of the table. That’s what that seat is reserved for. So we, you and I, we have to claim that. We literally have to claim that, nobody does it for us.

Paulien
It’s funny because you said, this is the place and the age that your soul wants to be. And I’m really feeling that more and more, I’m actually quite happy with where I am. I’m accepting much more of myself. I feel I wouldn’t want to be the young person anymore that I was. I’m loving this. It’s just that I want to now push through and really develop this. And I feel that finding my voice is the entrance, is the doorway to doing that.

Marc David
Absolutely. Are there times that you feel as if I’m speaking from that deeper voice. I’m speaking from that wise voice. When are those times for you?

Paulien
Those are the times when I’m coaching and it’s going very fluidly, it’s going naturally, and when the coaching is done, I feel so happy and elated. I know that’s where my soul is helping other people.

Marc David
Isn’t it amazing how it works like that.

Paulien
It is!

Marc David
So, helping other people. As much as you can push the pedal to the metal on that, that’s great, because then you get the opportunity to be in that place even more. I like the idea for you, if you like to journal, or you like to write, to start doing that more from the voice of the wise woman, what does she have to say? Because that’s another opportunity for you to step into that voice and just be spending more time there. What else helps you feel like you’re in that voice? What other times?

Paulien
Definitely, when I’m outside walking, I love being outside walking with the dog, that’s when I really feel free.

Marc David
I think it’s important at those times to really anchor those feelings and notice that. Like, I’m feeling free. This is how it feels, and to notice how when you come back inside the house, you can bring that feeling with you more, and you can help that feeling linger a little bit more. So it’s finding ways to spend more time there, to notice when you’re there, to honor yourself when you’re there.

Paulien
Yes, I think a third area is when I’m with my friends or family. I just had my two sisters from the Netherlands, visit me here in France, and it was such a unique time. I just felt happy for five days. So I think it’s connecting with the people you love when you feel most alive.

Marc David
It’s so true! So there’s a lot of great strategies that you have to start to anchor that voice in you and feed that part of you. The more the wise woman gets fed, the more air time she gets, the less you will need to be in that rebellious part of you, the less you’ll need to go there. I suggest that you let go of this being perfect. I should never have those feelings again. I should never want to binge eat again, because that means that there’s something wrong with me. That means I’m not there yet. That means I’m not a wise person. No. It just means that you have this other part of you that you’re still learning to manage and regulate and integrate. So you’re still learning that that’s okay. We’re always learning it doesn’t stop. So I’m learning to manage that part of me. And great, yeah, that part of me shows up when I’m alone, y myself, a few times a week. It’s problematic. Yeah, that’s great. That’s a great time to work on that part of you. It’s perfect. And we’ve already discussed some ways to work on that part of you, which is actually to stop fighting her and start embracing her and be present with that part of you and allow that part of you so you can learn about her more and bring light into that part of you. Meaning, when that part of me shows up. I’m not going to do it halfway. I’m going to be fully conscious in it.

Paulien
Yes, it still feels like a huge leap to lead with the wise woman. But I think that’s my perfectionism again. I think I just need to start small and with baby steps, start writing, start putting things on social media. Because on the one hand, I think, Oh, my goodness, I can never do that, but I know I can, and I think I need to start small.

Marc David
Yes, I love that for you, yeah. So how you feeling about this conversation?

Paulien
I’m feeling very, very happy. I think you put your finger right on it, and you’ve given me some very good strategies to work on.

Marc David
Oh, I’m so glad, Paulien! I think that you’re in a far better place than you imagine, and that getting where you want to go is less of a leap than you imagine. Because the wise woman voice is right there, she’s here. She just needs more permission to come out. So it’s not about fighting any other part of you. It’s not about fixing any part of you. It’s about letting this natural voice, it’s natural. You said you wanted to be a natural eater.

Paulien
Yes!

Marc David
Great. I think I know what you mean. One of the ways to become a natural eater is to become a natural Paulien. It’s to become the natural you. The natural you is different from the natural somebody else. You know, we all have similarities, but the natural you, at the very least, has a wise woman that naturally wants to come out and is naturally ready to come out. So as you become the more natural you it’s easier to become a natural eater.

Paulien
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and I think that’s the way it’ll work. And it feels literally that all I have to do is open the door to the wise woman, because she’s there as you said.

Marc David
Yes, and the wise woman would not belittle the rebel or the young girl in you who’s wanting to binge on something. She would embrace her. She would understand her. She would love her. She would share wise words with her. Yeah. So that’s what I was trying to be, the de facto voice of the wise person for you, for that voice like, here’s what the voice of wisdom could sound like for this part of you. So now all you have to do is just take that on and say, Okay, I’m going to be compassionate with this part of me. I’m not going to fight and I’m going to embrace her. I’m going to get to know her. I’m going to bring light and awareness and consciousness, which means I’m going to slow down when I do this ritual. Just going to slow down and not fight it, and just observe what happens. There will be a natural process where you will naturally start to claim your power in those moments, and you’ll see natural ways through to feel better about yourself and to make choices eventually that really work for you.

Paulien
Yeah, you’ve given me a whole new way of looking at this, because the fighting is not helping. It’s exhausting, and I’m done.

Marc David
Yes, I got that loud and clear when we started talking. Fighting is not the way to go for you, so let’s just not fight.

Paulien
This has been amazing. Marc!

Marc David
Paulien, thank you so much. It’s been a wonderful conversation. I so appreciate you.

Paulien
Thank you very much, Marc, for everything you do. Thanks.

Marc David
You’re so welcome. I appreciate it. Thanks and thanks everybody for tuning in. Take care everybody!