Anger & Weight Loss: Tuning In, and Getting Real – In Session with Marc David

Anger & Weight Loss: Tuning In, and Getting Real – In Session with Marc David

Marc David  

Welcome, everybody. I’m Marc David, founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating. We are in the Psychology of Eating Podcast, and I’m with Julie today. Welcome, Julie.

Julie  

Thank you.

Marc David  

Well, Julie, I know you know how this works. And for anybody new to the podcast, Julie and I are meeting for the first time and we’re going to do a session together to see if we can make some good things happen. So Julie, if you can wave your magic wand, and if you can get whatever you want with food and body, what would that be for you?

Julie  

I would probably say just to be at a much more comfortable weight so that all of life can be more comfortable. I can move more comfortably, find clothes that fit more comfortably, fit in a plane seat more comfortably. Really I want to make life a little bit more comfortable, both physically and mentally. And in different situations, I want my size and weight to not be constantly in the back of my mind.

Marc David   

Right. So, how long has weight been a concern for you?

Julie  

Well, I quit smoking about 20 years ago and that’s when the pounds really packed on. It wasn’t a major battle before that, but I would go up and down some with pregnancies. During my last pregnancy, I actually only gained about six pounds, and then I lost some weight after that. Then, when I quit smoking, it just piled on. It’s been a battle since then.

Marc David  

So, you quit smoking 20 years ago?

Julie  

Yeah. 

Marc David  

And how old are you now?

Julie  

49

Marc David  

So, you quit when you were about 29. Where are you at in the menopausal part of your life?

Julie  

Um, I think I am probably at that point. I’m experiencing some of that.

Marc David  

And have you been able to lose weight successfully in the last few years?

Julie  

I wouldn’t be able to tell you exactly when, but I went on a liquid diet and lost a good amount of weight. I felt great, but the minute I stopped, it was back on.

Marc David  

Yeah. Can’t live on liquids, that’s for sure.

Julie  

No, no, it sure isn’t easy. But so far, I’ve lost about 20 pounds. Some of that came off with the help of COVID, and some of that was just really trying to put into practice some different things. 

Marc David  

So how much weight do you want to lose at this point? What would be a reasonable amount for you that you think would feel good for you?

Julie  

I don’t honestly have a clue. I think if I weighed around 140 pounds or 150 pounds that would be great, but it’s been a long time since I’ve been there. So, I don’t know how realistic that is. At this point, I’d be happy to be under 200 pounds.

Marc David  

How much weight would you have to lose to get there?

Julie  

About 30 pounds.

Marc David  

Okay, you quit smoking, the weight started coming on, and the liquid diet was not sustainable. This is such a common story. That is: people stop smoking and the weight gain happens. So, what would you attribute that weight gain to? Did you notice your appetite change? Were you eating more? What was different for you other than quitting smoking?

Julie  

Emotional eating. I didn’t have a cigarette to go to, so I went to food.

Marc David  

Yes. And do you think that turning to food, and emotional eating, is still a part of your repertoire these days?

Julie  

I think I have moved way beyond that. I have gotten a pretty good handle on the behavior. However, I do think my body has some serious healing to do from all of the years of abuse eating junk and emotionally eating. I’m not gonna say that emotional eating doesn’t ever come up anymore, but I think when it does, I’m much better and faster at dealing with it.

Marc David  

So right now, what do you tell yourself about why your body doesn’t lose weight so easily? What do you say to yourself?

Julie  

I’m not sure. Maybe I’m missing something here because I don’t eat or drink a ton, though I still struggle with my weight. I know my diet isn’t perfect, but I’ve worked hard at improving it. So, I’m not quite sure exactly what’s the biggest factor there? I don’t know. I don’t binge like I used to or do those things anymore.

Marc David  

Yes. Are you on any kind of prescription medications?

Julie  

I take high blood pressure medication. That’s it.

Marc David  

Okay. And have you ever been tested for diabetes?

Julie  

Before I had COVID, I went in and actually had a bunch of tests done. Everything came back pretty normal. So, I don’t have diabetes.

Marc David  

How was your thyroid hormone level?

Julie  

Thyroid was good. Surprisingly to me, it all turned out good. I was really surprised because I had been doing fairly well until I had a job change, and then I started feeling really crappy again. So, I went in and had her check everything and it all came out okay. So, I asked her if it could just be about the change in the hours that I was working? And she said, yes. So, I actually quit that job and my body started healing. Then, I got COVID.

Marc David  

Hmm. Wow. So, this isn’t a fun process for you. That is, trying to figure out why the weight is not coming off? This is hard for you.

Julie  

Yeah.

Marc David  

Yeah, I’m sorry, you have to go through that. We’re generally taught that less food equals less weight. And if you’re not eating a lot of food, and the weight isn’t coming off, it can be a little bit of a head scratcher in terms of what’s going on. So, that’s why I started by asking a few questions around diabetes, hormone health, particularly thyroid, and prescription medication. Sometimes, these can create weight loss resistance. And how’s your sleep? 

Julie  

That can vary. I have various body aches and pains that can sometimes get in the way of that. I also have two smaller dogs in the bed that always gravitate towards my side which can affect my sleep. So, sometimes it’s good and sometimes it’s not, depending on a couple of different factors.

Marc David  

And have you done any other kind of nutritional approach? Sometimes you’ll hear people say: “oh, I went vegan, or I went vegetarian, or I did a paleo, or an ancestral diet.” Have you ever done any of those diets?

Julie  

My husband and I have really been working to take out flour, processed foods, and eat more vegetables; things of that nature. That’s probably where some of that weight has come off. It has probably helped with that, but I haven’t done anything real extreme. I’ve just been making the smaller changes. I used to be a huge soda drinker years ago until I started feeling the health consequences from that behavior. So, I cut that out. I’ll have one every now and then, but very rarely. So, we really tried making those small dietary changes, my husband and I, because he needs it too. We’ve been looking for recipes that are much healthier.

Marc David  

Yeah. Are there any other symptoms of note that you deal with such as digestive issues, mood issues, brain fog or headaches?

Julie  

Well, depression has been an issue for me all my life, since I was a young kid. Brain fog isn’t so bad. I did deal with that in the past and could usually attribute it to feeling stressed due to having too many things going on. Brain fog also set in when I had COVID. Just so you know, COVID almost killed me. I had quite a treatment. It took a while, but I think I’m finally back to normal. But boy, the brain fog was horrible with that. I think most of that has gotten back to normal. October 11th would have been a year.

Marc David  

Well, congratulations on being alive. I understand. I was in the hospital and was also wondering if I was going to make it. So, I know those moments. I also had long COVID, and it took me a while to get back on my feet. Man, that was my first moment of “whoa! Yeah, I’m a mortal.”

Julie  

I knew if I got it, I was gonna be at risk. When I did get it, it hit me hard. But I had a good doctor.

Marc David  

I’m glad it all worked out for you. So, how’s the weight experience been for other members of your family? Parents? siblings?

Julie  

My mom has no weight issues. My sister has no weight issues. My dad has always been heavy.

Marc David  

Let’s talk about depression for a moment. What age did you first notice that you were dealing with some kind of depression?

Julie  

I think I was super young. I had to deal with a very tumultuous family situation. My parents weren’t happy and they divorced. I had a sister that also created a lot of problems and issues in the family. So, it’s just been something I’ve always dealt with.

Marc David  

Have you noticed times when it feels like: “oh, this is much better. I’m not feeling as bad.”

Julie  

I’ve got the tools to deal with it so that I don’t fall into a downward spiral so easily if that makes sense. I definitely have more times now where I’m dealing with it a lot better. If something comes up, I have the tools to just deal with it so that it doesn’t go down into that deep, deep spiral. I know how to catch it and stop it.

Marc David  

Have you ever gone on an antidepressant? 

Julie  

Very, very briefly. 

Marc David  

It didn’t work for you?

Julie  

You know, I think it did. It helped me learn how to deal with it. But it wasn’t something I wanted to be on long term.

Marc David  

How many kids do you have?

Julie  

I have three kids and one grandkid. 

Marc David  

Okay, so are all of your kids out of the house now?

Julie  

Yes.

Marc David  

How’s that?

Julie  

It’s nice. Yeah, I homeschooled my kids. My daughter just left this fall, and I was ready to be done.

Marc David  

Oh, good for you for homeschooling. I think that’s very honorable. Now, I want to talk to you about homeschooling. But on the topic at hand, let me offer a couple of thoughts. 

Weight is complex. Losing weight is complex as you are seeing. If there was an easy formula, you would have done it, and it would have worked. If there was an easy formula, everybody would do the easy formula, and it would work. And I think what’s hard for most human beings to realize, because we’re not taught this by the experts and by the authorities, is that weight is very multidimensional and multifactorial. There can be many reasons why a human being gains weight or can’t lose weight. I have seen this many times, and I believe very strongly that for every person who wants to lose weight, their weight loss journey is going to be very different. What works for somebody else is not necessarily going to work for you, and vice versa. So now, I just want to ask a couple more questions before I start to come to any thoughts about depression for you. How does your husband handle that?

Julie  

My depression? 

Marc David  

Yes. 

Julie  

He’s just super supportive. Whether it’s my depression or weight loss. You name it, he’s supportive.

Marc David  

Good for you for having that kind of relationship.

Julie  

Right. I feel bad for the guy. I always say I came into our marriage with a lot of baggage, and he’s been helping me unpack it ever since. But yeah, all I can say is that he’s supportive.

Marc David  

Yes. Do you ever think to yourself what might help you to move the needle on your depression? Do you ever think to yourself: if I can only do that thing, or think this way I could handle my depression better? What do you tell yourself about it?

Julie  

I’m tired of it. I’m tired of the battle.

Marc David  

Yes. 

Julie  

So yeah. I don’t know how to get it any further than it is. Other than to somehow find value in myself? Which I think, for many reasons, I struggle with.

Marc David  

Yes. What does help you feel that you’re valuable and that you have something to offer?

Julie  

I don’t know. I really don’t know. Sorry. I think that just finding that value in myself is probably my biggest struggle. You know, I’ve had so many messages about my value said to me throughout life, even with homeschooling. I struggled so much with that. The message I was getting from my family was: “you’re gonna screw your kids up”, and “you need to be out working”, “you need to have a career”, “you need to have a degree”, “you need to be this, you need to be that.” And so no matter what I’m doing or not doing, I think I struggle with that. Then, I get messages about my weight on top of that.

Julie  

From family?

Julie  

From one person primarily: my mom. 

Marc David  

Yes. How old is your mom? 

Julie  

She is 71.

Marc David  

Have you ever told your mom to speak differently to you, please?

Julie  

She’s never outright mean, but the message that my weight is not acceptable is definitely there. That, and the fact that I don’t have some hoighty-toighty career. None of that is acceptable. So, what am I supposed to say, I guess? 

Marc David  

Yeah. You know, it’s such a challenge when we get those messages from a young age because, as you know, young people are extremely impressionable. We take what’s given to us from the outside world, we believe it, and we repeat it. If you’re constantly told that you’re wonderful, you’re beautiful, you’re the greatest thing ever, then we start to believe that. If you’re told you’re not good enough, you’re not okay, you need to do this in order to be more lovable, or likable, than we believe that. And the odd thing is, we repeat those to ourselves. Even though you don’t live in your mother’s house anymore, she’s still talking to you, and even when she’s not there, those voices are still in our head. Any voice that you and I have inside that says: “you’re no good, you’re not enough”, “you’re not enough as you are right now”, you need to be this”, you should have been this”, “you should look like that”, “you should weigh this.” Those messages are by themselves heavy. 

They’re heavy like a burden that we carry around, and they weigh thousands of metaphorical pounds. So, when I’m listening to your journey and your story, I hear a couple of things. From a personal perspective, I think your job and task in life is to learn how to lighten up. Now, obviously, we say to ourselves: “well, I’m carrying around all this weight, and if I had less weight, I would be lighter.” And technically, you would be lighter if you had less weight. But I gotta tell you, Julie, I know a lot of people who weigh 110, 120, 130, 140 pounds, and they’re heavy. They’re heavy internally because they feel depressed, and they can feel like they hate themselves. They can be carrying every burden imaginable, such that the net result is a feeling of being heavy. Literally, that’s their own experience even though technically, their body is light. 

 So all I’m saying is, in this weird twist of fate, a lighter body means that you’ll be lighter in pounds, but it doesn’t necessarily translate to feeling lighter because we’re feeling depressed and feeling the emotional feeling of heaviness from the carrying of an emotional burden. It’s a burden to feel that: “I’m not okay”, “I’m not good enough.” “I should have been different.” “I should have been better.” That’s a burden. And it’s a heavy burden to carry. So I think for a lot of us, not all, but for some of us, what happens is our heaviness gets translated into our body. There’s also a place where if we were raised on poor quality food, junk food, or a lot of sugar, it can take a while to turn our metabolism around. It just does. So definitionally, we get a more difficult start. I was raised on the worst junk food. It didn’t impact my weight so much as it impacted my health in a very dramatic way. It took me a while to turn around my asthma, allergies, brain fog, and joint pain just as a kid.

So, if we’re raised with a poor quality diet, that by itself can create a habit in our metabolism that just takes time to unwind. The easiest way to unwind that is to move towards what you say you’re already doing which is cleaning up your diet. Some people go all or nothing like: “okay, I’m throwing out all the junk, all of this, and all of that”. Some of us can go cold turkey, others cannot. If you were my long term client, I would want to make longer term, gradual changes in your diet. Changes that are doable for you. A lot of times, if you make changes that are not doable or incremental, you’re not going to stick to them because of the nature of habits and because our taste buds get accustomed to certain things. You might know that soda is not the best thing for you, but if you are raised on that, you’re going to want a soda every once in a while. That’s not going to hurt you or kill you, as long as it’s not your staple liquid. 

So, I see two prongs of an approach for you to work on. One prong is to gradually alter your diet, with the understanding that what your body is telling you right now is that the amount of food that you eat is not necessarily the needle mover on your weight loss journey. This is not uncommon. There are some people who can eat less food and lose weight. But there’s probably just as many people who eat less food and their weight doesn’t come off because there are other things going on. Some of the things that are going on, we just don’t understand because we may not truly understand how the body works. The body is impacted on a hormonal level, and in so many different ways. So many different organ systems impact your weight. Your gut health and your liver health,  can impact weight gain, weight loss, or weight loss resistance. So ,all I’m saying is that in the absence of having certainty, the more you can start to move your diet towards things that you know are going to be healthy for you, the better your probability is to slowly retrain your metabolism. 

At the same time, the other prong to work on is your depression. Depression and weight go hand in hand. It’s not that they cause each other, but they’re kind of like partners in your journey. Because on the one hand, depression speaks to you and says: “I’m not okay. I’m not good enough.” Weight speaks to all of us in the same way. Anybody who’s dealing with wanting to lose weight is basically saying: “I’m not good enough the way I am.”, if I lose weight, I’m good enough.”, “if I lose weight, I’m lovable.”, “if I lose weight, y’all will love me.”, “if I don’t lose weight, I’m not acceptable.” Again, that’s heavy. That’s a heavy and depressing thought for a lot of us. Do you ever get angry?

Julie  

I wouldn’t say I get really angry very often.

Marc David  

Do you ever want to get angry?

Julie  

Oh, I have. During COVID, I was on a lot of steroids that gave me the experience of lacking control of my mouth. So, I got angry, and I felt horrible. There were just things that I wanted to say about the situation, but I felt bad afterwards.

Marc David  

It’s funny, because as you were talking about getting angry, you were all laughing and smiling. So, there has to be something that feels good about it. How many brothers and sisters do you have?

Julie  

I have one sister, but I don’t have a relationship with her anymore. Yeah, I had to do away with that.

Marc David  

So, not always, but oftentimes on the flip side of depression, is anger. When anger doesn’t have a voice, sometimes it actually shows up as its opposite. It shows up as depression. I’m not saying your depression is because you’re not being angry, but oftentimes that’s a key to help unlock depression. That’s why I asked you about anger. You seem like a good girl. 

Julie  

Yeah, you know, I think you’re right to a certain extent. There probably is some pent up anger about childhood. It’s kind of an ongoing thing. It’s one thing when you can completely remove the source of the wounds like I did with my sister when I said I was done with her and that I wasn’t dealing with this anymore. I’m also pretty close to doing that with my dad. Lately, I’m also realizing that maybe I have a little bit more anger towards my mom than I thought. I’ve heard of my mom’s upbringing, and that made me feel way more understanding about why she did the things she did. So, I guess I try to be understanding, but it doesn’t stop the wounds.

Marc David  

Right. So, that can all exist side by side. You can be a very understanding person, which you are. You could be a compassionate person, meaning you’re not the kind of person who wants to spew anger at everybody. You’re someone who wants to create some goodness around you. That’s just you. And at the same time, you’re a human being, and human beings get angry. Anger is, arguably, one of the top three most difficult emotions to deal with in terms of what society tells you is acceptable as an emotion. I especially think that while this is true for men, it is especially true for women. For women, it’s a little tougher because women are not supposed to get angry. You’re supposed to be a good girl, just keep it in, and be understanding. A lot of times though, when that happens, we just push anger down, and it can show up as depression and as heaviness. That could also just translate into feeling stuck.

Julie  

I think I do push anger down every now and then when it comes up, but not very often.

Marc David  

I think it would be an interesting assignment for you to just do some journaling, an anger inventory, or just make a list of: “everything I’m angry about”. Nobody has to see this, it’s just between you and you. It would be just for your eyes. There’s nobody reading it. There’s nobody assessing you. There’s nobody judging you. And you don’t have to justify your anger. You could be angry just because you’re angry. You don’t have to have a good reason for it. You don’t have to explain it away. You’re an understanding person, and I’m interested for you to give your anger a voice of its own where it doesn’t have to hedge or hold itself back. Just like what the hell are you angry at? What pisses you off? What has pissed you off? What continues to piss you off?

Julie  

Sounds really good. 

Marc David  

Yeah! Just so you can see that. Because I think there’s a part of you that needs that to come out. You know, when you create a boundary, for example, if you say: “okay, sister, this relationship is not happening anymore.” Part of what goes into creating that boundary is your anger. If everything was all sweet and nice, and you weren’t angry about it, you wouldn’t do that. So, there’s a part of your anger that’s speaking there. Sometimes, the key to unlocking our physical metabolism, or our chemical metabolism, is to unlock our emotional metabolism. I’ve seen it time and time again. 

I think anger wants a voice. And oftentimes, like I mentioned, depression will be the place that we go to more and more when we’re not giving anger a voice. So, I’d love to see you write that inventory. Then, consider doing this with your husband. Every once in a while, sit down and say to your husband: “this crazy guy gave me this assignment where I just gotta’ talk to you, and you just gotta’ listen. We don’t have to fix anything. Just listen to me for 10 minutes so I can tell you all the nonsense that I’m angry about.” This is where you just get to feel it, and you get to own it. You don’t have to be a good girl. You don’t have to worry. He’s not gonna judge you. He’s not gonna leave you. He’s not gonna hate you. You know that because he hasn’t done any of that and you know that he stands in your court. 

Anger is power! And depression, in a weird way, is an emotion that isn’t getting channeled. But anger is energy that wants to turn into something else. All emotional energy is at some point, energy for creation. Your anger is energy for creation. When you’re angry, you might feel a little energized. So, I think there’s a place in you where your energy field, your body, and your emotional body just wants to be able to express itself.

Julie  

Yeah, I think I can definitely see that. Anger wasn’t anything that I had thought of, but as you are talking about it, I’m realizing that there’s like 49 years worth of anger that I’ve stuffed down.

Marc David  

Yes, and you didn’t stuff it because there’s something wrong with you. You stuffed it because that is how we’re taught to survive. If you express your anger, then you were taught that your family won’t like you. They are already pissed off at you because you’re not having some super duper career and because you don’t have some perfectly skinny body. So, why would you want to piss them off even more by being angry at them? A lot of times, we notice as a young child that it’s not safe for me to express my anger. I’m not getting approval. I think in order to feel safe, we learn how to become good boys and good girls. Were you overweight as a child?

Julie  

No. So, in ninth grade I was actually really active. When I go back to look at my pictures, I see that I was skinny, but I thought I was fat. But in ninth grade, I had an injury that kept me inactive for a year, and I gained a little bit of weight. I would give anything to be back at that weight now. So, my real problems started when I quit smoking. After my first child, I also had some issues with my weight. I weighed more when I left the hospital because I just filled up with fluid. I battled that for a long time. But then with my second and third pregnancy, I did much better. Before I smoked, I was a huge binge eater. Yet, I managed to keep my weight under control by turning to smoking. But when I quit, I couldn’t turn to that anymore.

Marc David  

Yes, yes. Life is very immediate, I find. It’s often giving us clues about the places that we can work. I’m just guessing for you that a ripe place to work, to begin to move your emotional metabolism, is around anger. You’re beginning to express your adult woman voice. There’s a part of you that’s being a kid with your mother. Yeah, you’re still her child, you’re her daughter, but you’re not 12 or 15 or 20 years old anymore. You’re a 49 year old woman. You are your own woman. There can be a place in our head where we still live as if we’re a younger person who doesn’t have the power, and who’s still looking for mother’s approval or father’s approval. 

There’s also a place where we need to graduate at some point. That graduation is a self-graduation where one day, we wake up and we decide that we’re going to do our best to not have to please our parents anymore. I cannot always please my parents. They’re gonna like stuff that I do, and they’re not gonna like stuff that I do. I can’t let that run my life and run my inner world. So, I think there’s a part of you that’s ready to own the queen within, in a new and bigger way. Meaning, you are in charge of your inner world. Nobody’s voice is going to tell you what to do, or how to feel about yourself. As children, we don’t know how to do that because we’re dependent on the love of the big people around us. We’re dependent on their money and all the security. But now, you’re an adult, and it’s your time to realize that you don’t need to depend on anyone else’s approval. How does that feel to you when I say that?

Julie  

Oh, it feels wonderful to think I could live that way. To be able to say and believe that what my parents or anybody else thinks of me doesn’t matter. To be able to say: “I don’t need your approval.” I think a certain part of me has maybe started doing that in bits and pieces. But then somebody will say something or do something, and it will bring me back down.

Marc David  

That’s where you have to be vigilant. This is a practice. It’s not like we wake up one morning and we go: “I don’t care what other people think about me.” It would be nice to be able to push that button, but it’s a practice. It takes time. It’s a practice like any other skill you’ve developed. It takes time, and you practice every day until you notice: “oh, wow, that person said something and I got small inside again. Oh, wait a second. Gotta take a couple of deep breaths and breathe myself back into my body.” You know, when we’re not experiencing all of our emotions, when we’re not experiencing our own personal power, we get easily knocked out of our body in a strange way. You have your personal power. It’s there, and you’re not always feeling it. We go into our head when somebody insults us, or when somebody says something. So, your job is to actually learn how to inhabit your body. 

I know you want to lose weight, and I want you to have that result. And what I’m trying to help you with is some of the mindset that creates the space for that to actually be able to happen. The mindset is: “I want to lose weight, but not because someone else or society is going to approve of me. I lose weight because that’s my preference. That’s what I want for me, not because that’s what you want me to do.” Because if losing weight is what everybody else wants us to do, then we’re just continuing that same old pattern that doesn’t work. The same old pattern where we give away our power, our dignity, and our authority.

Julie  

I know I’m always in my head. I have a hard time shutting my head off. You asked how I sleep, and it seems like my mind is even going while I’m sleeping a lot of the time. It’s always, always going. You know, I don’t let my weight stop me from doing the things that I want to do. We travel, we go snorkeling. But I would like to do that without the thought in my head that “this is embarrassing”, and “I’m being judged”. It’s always there. I want to go snorkeling and not have to think about anything else before or after. I just want to snorkel, and enjoy it. I am always thinking that I shouldn’t be showing myself in a bathing suit no matter how much coverage it offers.

Marc David  

Oddly enough, only we can do that work. You’re the only one in you who can change that. We tell ourselves “”well, if I just lost the frickin weight, I won’t have to deal with that anymore.” True, but when I say: “if I lost the weight, I won’t have to deal with that”, it automatically makes me feel less than, puts me in my head, and makes me feel like I’m not good. So, once again, I want to say that it is a practice. It’s a practice for you to show up and just say: “tada, here’s me! You don’t like the way I look in a bathing suit? Well, I don’t like the way you look either. I don’t care. I’ve got love in my life, and I’m good. I don’t need y’all to think anything about me.” That’s something that you have to practice. That’s  something that you invoke. And it takes time. It’s kind of like you’re making that part of your mental diet. You’re feeding yourself positive regard. You’re feeding yourself positive ways of thinking about yourself because the more you put those vitamins in your body, vitamin A, which is acceptance, and vitamin L, which is love, it just kind of builds on itself. Otherwise, we’re going to feel like victims. Otherwise, every time there’s an opportunity to feel bad about yourself, you’re going to take that opportunity. What are some of the things that you do that help you get out of your head? That help you just forget for a moment that you’ve got to lose weight? Moments when you’re just in your body and you’re having a good time?

Julie  

I don’t know if there’s a whole lot where I’m not in my head. When we’re traveling, and doing different things. I’m so happy that we’re going on our first cruise in over two years. I can’t wait to get back at that. But in my head is always that thought: “oh, you should have lost some weight before you did this. Then maybe you’d be more comfortable. You should have lost some weight before you did this.” It’s just always there in my head. We do love walking our dogs, and I would say when I’m out walking, I’m not there. I’m just enjoying nature, conversation, and whatever.

Marc David  

How about touch?

Julie  

I love touch, but I’m also uncomfortable with it. I don’t recall, as a child, a whole lot of hugging. There wasn’t a whole lot of loving stuff of that nature. So, I didn’t grow up with that, and it was a discomfort for me. Now, my husband comes from a family where they’re big on that. We hug every day at least once, thanks to my husband. He’s made a point to do that. But I’m not not one of those open people where I will just come up and just be hugging people.

Marc David  

I want to leave you with another possibility; another way of thinking about things. None of what I’ve been talking about with you is a quick weight loss strategy. I think what I’ve been talking about is that there are just some pieces to bring into your life like focusing on the depression, focusing on the anger piece, and learning to find your voice with people. I know you’re already doing, but I want to see you doing that even more so. I’m talking about you starting to monitor the negative conversation in your mind that you go into, and starting to free yourself of the imagined opinions of others. Because it’s your imagination. Most people don’t care because they’re in their own world. If somebody is judging you because of how you look, great, that’s good news because now you know who is not your friend. Now you know who this person is, and that this is not a person that you’re interested in. This is not a person who’s going to be in my world. Adios.

So, here’s another piece that I think is important for a lot of us. Even though we’re born into this world, a lot of times, we haven’t fully birthed into our own body. Meaning, we’re not in our body. We spend a lot of time in our head, and the body becomes like a life support system for the head. We’re thinking about stuff all the time, and we’re worrying about stuff all the time. Of course we’re going to think, and of course we’re going to worry. That’s a part of being a human. But a part of being a human is also inhabiting this body. A lot of times we check out of the body because it’s too painful to be there when we feel difficult emotions, or when we feel pain and suffering, especially when we had a difficult childhood. The difficult emotions are felt as emotions and emotions live in the body. So the more I leave my body, the less I have to deal with that. And we cover up emotions by using food. Food kind of helps us leave our body. Alcohol can also do that. Drugs can do that. All kinds of things can help us just go out of our body. Your job is to learn how to be in your body. 

It is difficult to shape shift your body, or to change the structure of your body, unless you’re in it. It’s kind of like being in a car. You want the car to go somewhere, so you get in the car, and you turn the key. You sit down, relax, and you move. But you’ve got to be in the car to move it, in the same way that you’ve got to be in your body in order to ask something big of it like losing a bunch of weight. In order to do that, we have to be in it. One of the ways that you can be in our body is by doing the things that you already do which help you go: “oh, this feels good.” Take a walk with the dogs, be out in nature, enjoy yourself. Also, start moving more into places that can be good for you. I think touch is a great place for you to explore. Just regular, good old-fashioned physical touch. It could be sensual or sexual touch. Just start to work with your husband. Enroll him, and let him know that you just want to be touched. Be uncomfortable, take your time, and give him instruction.

Julie  

The actual touch doesn’t make me uncomfortable. I like it. But then no, that’s not true. Because I’m quite often thinking: “ew, you’re going to touch my fat body and get turned off?” Even though I know that isn’t the case, that’s the thought that goes to my head. So I was thinking oh, I’m not uncomfortable. But yeah, I am.

Marc David  

Yeah. So, that’s not uncommon for people of any size. You would be shocked to learn that people who you think have the most beautiful bodies in the world, both men and women, are touch averse for all kinds of different reasons. Often, because they think they need to lose a pound. They think they need to be shorter, taller, whatever. The hair needs to look different. So, it takes practice, to let your body receive more pleasure. Your body’s built for pleasure. And when we’re constantly trying to change it: “come on, buddy, I just got to change you. I just gotta make you lose weight so I can feel better about you.” When we do that, in a weird way, what we’re telling it is: “I don’t feel good about you right now. I don’t enjoy you right now. You don’t deserve to have joy right now because you’re too big.” Like: “oh, you’re touching my fat body? Well, this body doesn’t deserve that.” And that’s just not true. 

There are women and men who have bigger bodies than you do, and they can enjoy themselves. There are people who have much smaller bodies than you do, and they don’t enjoy themselves. So, it’s all about what’s happening in our inner world. And it’s about you starting to feel good about yourself in your body now. It’s about you not making weight loss the number one condition for you to accept and love your body because that’s what everybody else told you. That’s what the world told you, and we don’t believe that. You have a part of you that I think follows the beat of your own drum. You just don’t always acknowledge that. You know, that’s why I was fascinated about homeschooling. I love homeschooling. You have to have a whole different way of looking at the world, and be a little more radical, inventive, and courageous to take that path. I don’t know if people say “what’s your problem?” with doing that, but I think: “Wow, big respect!”

Julie  

Yeah, I kind of like that description of radical. There are some people who would probably say that about me. 

Marc David  

Yeah, and that’s a compliment! 

Julie  

It honestly doesn’t bother me either. But yeah, I think sometimes, I’m so conflicted. I love that radical side of me, and then there’s that other side of me that says: “nope, that’s not okay.” So, I’m always just in a fight with myself.

Marc David  

Yeah. So, it’s learning how to call a ceasefire. That takes practice. The way you call a ceasefire is you say: “I’m going to practice doing a ceasefire.”  The moment you say: “no, that part of me is not acceptable”, you go: “wait a second! I love that part of me. It doesn’t matter what y’all think. It doesn’t matter what anybody thinks.” You learn to love and respect that side of you. That’s the side of you that you want to feed because whichever side you’re feeding, that’s who’s going to get all the growth, and that’s who’s gonna get the nutrition, and that’s who’s gonna get stronger. So, it’s just a slow training of the mind where you are intentional about where you’re putting your energy. Yeah, you’ll argue with yourself and you’ll go: “no, no I’m really not good.” And then you just go: “oh, right. That’s the part of me that’s coming in again. I don’t have to feed her.”

So, let me ask you, what are you taking away from this conversation?

Julie  

That I need to deal with some anger, for sure. I already know there’s gonna be a long list of anger that I’ve held in, over all the years, that I haven’t allowed myself to just have. It’s about time I do that, so that I can then put it behind me, hopefully. I think that’s one of the big ones. And I’ve got a lot of head work to do to accept who I am. I think I’ve always struggled with not knowing who I am because I have been given so many mixed messages. But I think I know, I just don’t think I will allow myself. 

Marc David  

Bingo!

Julie  

When you said the word “radical”, I kind of liked that because I think that description fits. There are just so many things that I don’t want to allow myself to do because I don’t think it’s what’s expected of me. I just need to stop it and let myself know who I am, and be who I am. 

Marc David  

And this is a perfect age for you to do that. You’re 49. You’re about to turn 50. That’s a moment of power. You’re your own woman.

Julie  

I have time, and I have the blessing of my husband. I’m at a point right now where I can do what I want to do. I can pursue what I want to pursue. All the kids are out of the house, and I left my job of 21 years. So, I just need to continue working on that and be radical with what I do. I’m tired of sitting in this nice little corner, being this nice little girl, never creating any waves, and just taking the crap thrown at me. It’s time to just stop doing that.

Marc David  

I agree! Stop doing that, and just start being the person who you already are. I just concur. You know who you are, it’s just a question of letting yourself accept that, and acknowledge it, and own it, and feel good about it. 

Julie  

Yeah. 

Marc David  

And from that place, continue to make the dietary changes that you’re doing. Gravitate towards healthier food, gravitate towards better quality food. You don’t have to push so hard on the weight loss piece. Remember that it’s just your preference to lose weight. Slowly make dietary changes, and slowly do whatever movement you can do. Even if it’s just walking and swimming. That’s great! I think giving the inner work that you’ve talked about some attention. Giving the anger piece some attention, the owning of who you are, and letting go of being a good girl, thinking you have to please everybody. It’s time for you to be the woman that you are, and the people that love that person are gonna hang around. Even the people that might have a challenge with it, like your mom, are still gonna love you. They’re just gonna have to deal with you. It’s okay for you to give people their uncomfortability. Meaning, if you’re you, it might make your mother uncomfortable. Great! Let her be uncomfortable. She’ll manage with that. That’s not your job.

Julie  

Yup.

Marc David  

Julie, great work today!

Julie  

Oh, thank you! I appreciate your insight. I knew there were some things I was missing, and you gave me some really good insight and really good things to work on.

Marc David  

I’m glad. I’m glad you found this helpful. Thanks for being on the ride with me and for being a good player in the game of life here as we’re just trying to help each other do better. 

Julie  

Yeah. 

Marc David  

Best of luck to you, Julie!

Julie  

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Marc David  

And thanks everybody for tuning in.