The Desire to Feel Comfortable in Your Own Skin – In Session with Marc David

The Desire to Feel Comfortable in Your Own Skin

Marc David  

Welcome, everybody. I’m Marc David, Founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating. We’re back in the Psychology of Eating Podcast, and I’m with Brenda today. Welcome, Brenda. 

Brenda  

Thank you. 

Marc David  

Glad you’re here, glad we’re doing this. So the idea is, you and I haven’t met, and we get to be together for a little bit of time to see if we can help you move forward in whatever it is you wish to work with around food and body. So, if you had a magic wand that you could wave and get whatever you wanted, when it came to food and when it came to your body, what would that be for you? What’s the big wish?

Brenda  

I’d like to eat healthier all the time instead of often wanting to eat things that I shouldn’t eat. I’d like to eat in a more moderate fashion. I go through these cycles. I do really well and I lose weight to where I’m comfortable. Now, I don’t want to stick thin or anything, but I have got to get to where I’m comfortable in my own skin. Then, something happens, and all of a sudden, I’m back to being two sizes bigger again. I don’t really worry about weight, but I don’t feel comfortable in my body with the extra weight. So, then I get angry with myself. It’s easy to start not liking myself because I’m in the fitness industry. I feel like I am not a failure, but maybe, not who I should be in order to empower my clients.

Marc David  

What do you do in the fitness universe?

Brenda  

Well, I’m actually a personal trainer. I’ve got my own studio. We do pilates and all different sorts of fitness classes.

Marc David  

Good for you. How long have you been doing that?

Brenda  

For 25 years or so.

Marc David  

Wow, that’s a great way to stay engaged with your own body.

Brenda  

I am fit. I’m very functionally fit. That’s what my studio is all about. So, that’s not the issue.

Marc David  

So, this pattern of being at the weight where you feel comfortable, and then all of a sudden something happens and you find yourself two sizes up…how long has that pattern been happening for you?

Brenda  

I think most of my life to be honest.

Marc David  

Okay, so if you could remember the earliest time…were you 20 years old? 12 years old? What age roughly?

Brenda  

I’d say I was in my mid to early teens. My mom used to put me on diets all the time because I was quite a chubby child. She would put me on diets all the time. Then, when I wasn’t on the diet, I thought “ahh, I can eat this!” Then of course, I would balloon because I’d been restricted on what I could eat and was only able to eat what she gave me. Back in those days, she would limit my biscuits, which was really horrible. So, I think that started my cycle. I’m aware of it now, but I wasn’t for many, many years. So, I’m just trying to work out some ways of getting out of that cycle.

Marc David  

Got it. So, when you’re at the weight, or at the size that you want to be at; the weight where you feel comfortable, what are you doing that helps you be at that size?

Brenda  

I’m able to focus more on what I’m eating. And I’m pretty sure I’m a bit of an emotional eater as well. So what’s happening with my weight depends on whether I’m really sad or having turmoil. Or, even when I’m feeling really happy because when you’re really happy it’s easy to just go and eat because you’re happy and you don’t worry about it. And during the times when I’m in turmoil, I eat for comfort. So, I think it’s a double-edged sword if that makes sense.

Marc David  

Oh, absolutely. So, you find yourself emotionally eating. And it could be because you’re happy or it could be that you’re just going through something tough. When you emotionally eat, do you reach for different kinds of foods that you tell yourself are “healthier” or “good for you”, or is it the same foods you normally eat? 

Brenda  

No. You know, I do have a glass of wine sometimes, and I might have some nibbles and stuff. But I usually can just have them in moderation. However, when I get really stressed it worsens. I’ve been under a lot of stress during the last year because I was renovating my studio and it turned into a humongous project–that’s another story. I just found that I was reaching for an extra glass of wine at night during that time. I wouldn’t have just one glass with dinner, I might have two. Then of course, once you have that extra glass, you start to feel like: “Oh, I think I’ll have some chips. I’ll have a little nibble on those biscuits.” So, I think one of my triggers is having too much extra alcohol at night because the food then comes on with it. 

Marc David  

Right, yeah. Okay so, you’re noticing your comfortability relative to your size and your clothing size. Do you weigh yourself?

Brenda  

I actually try not to. I have a scanner that tells you body fat. I prefer to sort of go by that, and my clothing size, rather than looking at weight. Because if you’ve got a lot of muscle mass, you can weigh a lot heavier. So, I don’t tend to worry about the weight as much.

Marc David  

Got it. More so, size. 

Brenda  

Yeah. 

Marc David  

Okay. And when you say you feel more comfortable at a certain size, can you say more about what feels better? How do you feel different?

Brenda  

I just feel that I like myself more because I feel more comfortable in my clothing. I don’t feel like my belly gets in the way when I’m exercising. And I just feel like I can be who I say I am. 

Marc David  

Yes.

Brenda  

I think it’s because of my job that I feel that pressure. And that’s terrible, but that’s the industry that we’re in. 

Marc David  

Do you notice that your business is worse when you’re in your two-sizes-more-than-you-want-to-be phase?

Brenda  

You know what? It’s actually not. Actually, sometimes it’s better because people can identify with my struggle. They’re going through the same struggles. So they go: “okay, well, I can go there. I can be comfortable. I can exercise. And I don’t have to worry about having a little skinny, crop-toppy person next to me”, if that makes sense. 

Marc David  

Yes.

Brenda  

And that’s great if people are like that, but I have mostly older people who are 35 or older, and they don’t feel comfortable in that situation. 

Marc David  

Yes. So, let’s start right there for a moment. Let’s just nip that one in the bud. You didn’t use these terms, but you share this concern that it’s sort of like you’re not walking the talk. You’re not doing what you’re supposed to be doing as a person in the fitness industry. Previously, what the world has taught us is this: if you’re going to be in the fitness industry, that means you have to be slender, muscular, look a certain way, and be a certain way. And if that was the case, probably only 1/20th of the world would be working out and doing anything for fitness. And the rest of the human population would not be going to a class trying to get fit, because they don’t have that body. To your point, you said to me that your business is not only not worse when you’re two sizes up, but sometimes it’s even better. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that people can relate more, they can relax, and they can feel that they are safe here and are not going to be judged because of that.

They’re thinking: here’s a woman who’s not classically tiny. Yet, she moves, she’s teaching, and she’s in her body. As far as I can tell, she’s feeling good about herself because she is up in front of the room. That can be inspiring. So, all I’m saying is this is your new paradigm. This is your new model. Sure, you can have your preference. You can say to me: “I want to be two sizes less…here’s the size, the weight, and the percent body fat that I want to be.” That’s totally your choice and your preference. But I just want to make sure for you that what’s actually motivating you, or inspiring you to be there, is not some made up nonsense that everybody’s judging you, and that you’re not being the right person. No, you’re actually doing people a great service by just being you. 

Sometimes you look like this, and sometimes you don’t look like this. And guess what? No matter what size you’ve been, you still come. You still show up. You still teach. You’re still functionally fit. You’re still moving, and you’re still relatively healthy. You’re alive. 

Brenda  

Exactly, yeah. 

Marc David  

So really, you can let that go. You can let go of that piece that what should be motivating you is your needing to be at or meet a certain standard with your body. If you focus on that piece, then you’re cutting away all the people who wish to be in your class because they feel safe and comfortable. What if you were speaking to your students and you said:  “hey, you all need to be two sizes less in order for me to accept you into my class?”

Brenda  

Yeah. I would never do that. 

Marc David  

Right? But that’s kind of what you’re saying to yourself. 

Brenda  

Yeah.

Marc David  

You are saying to yourself that you have to be two sizes less in order to be teaching. You wouldn’t say that to your students…why say it to you?

Brenda  

I think I know that in my head, but it’s a confidence thing, I think.

Marc David  

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s retraining your brain. It’s a confidence thing, but it’s also about retraining your brain whenever you go into that thought of: “oh, I’m not walking my talk. I’m not being the ideal fitness person.” Instead you say: “no, wait a second. That’s not true. I’m actually doing something really good in the fitness universe. I’m helping a good number of people feel really good about themselves and feel comfortable and okay with showing up in this class.”

Brenda  

Yeah. And that’s what I wanted to bring. I wanted everyone to feel comfortable no matter what size or shape they are. I want them to know that they can come into a safe space and not be judged.

Marc David  

So, that’s where you got to walk the talk. You gotta do it yourself. Right?

Brenda  

Yeah, true.

Marc David  

You got to do that part for yourself. If you’re saying I’m doing that for other people, that’s where you gotta walk the talk for you. And it’s a practice. It’s a practice like showing up for class is a practice. Showing up for yourself in terms of changing your thinking is a practice. Okay? So, as far as I can tell, here’s the dilemma: “since my early teens, my mom started dieting me.” By the way, this is unfortunately, not an unusual story. From a young age, we’re conditioned to think: “oh, my goodness, if I don’t lose weight, the big people in this world (i.e. the parents, the older people, the people taking care of me) won’t love me or approve of me, and apparently, other people won’t love me or approve of me because this is really important. So, I have to lose weight.” So, here you are as a young person eating this restrictive diet, and the moment you’re off the diet, what’s any young person going to do? You’re going to party! You’re going to celebrate. 

So, then you’re going to go to the opposite of where you just were because you were kind of being put in a food and body prison. The natural tendency, as soon as you’re let out of food and body prison, is to want to have a little bit of fun and pleasure because you’ve been restricted and not allowed to be a young person who can just naturally be in your joy with food. I always think our parents are doing the best that they can. I’m not blaming your mom. I’m not blaming anybody else. She did the best that she could. But that’s been a pattern for you. Even though your mom doesn’t put you on a diet anymore and says every day: “okay, Brenda, we’re cracking the whip! Here’s what you gotta eat!”, there’s this part of you who has taken over her job. You’re watching yourself like your mom would watch you and saying to yourself: “No, no, no, we got to eat like this.” But as soon as life gets to be a little too much, a little too tough, you reach for food. We’re emotional people. A lot of times when an emotion happens, either positive or negative, happy or sad, you reach for food and sort of feel bad about yourself. Yeah. So, when you’re reaching for food and when you’re emotionally eating, it’s almost like you’re that 12,13,14,15 year old girl again. 

Brenda  

Yeah. 

Marc David  

When you ate food while you were off the diet in your teens, that was a form of emotional eating. You were celebrating, you were happy. You were eating because you said: “well, I can eat!” But also, part of you might have been feeling sad, because that hurt. Ouch, you had to be on a diet. This is difficult. Young people are emotional, and we go through a lot. It’s all kind of mixed in together, the good emotions, the challenging emotions. All you learned from a young age was that as soon as you had a sense of freedom and a good reason, you were going to eat because eating made you feel like you could celebrate since you were off the hook and not under the whip anymore. You could just be yourself. So, you have two choices. One, you could say: “Okay, I accept myself, and this is the pattern: I go up two sizes, I go down two sizes.” You can just do the pattern and accept it. That would be reasonable. And the other option is: “you know, something? This is a lifelong pattern. I don’t think I want to do it anymore. Let’s change it.” That’s harder work. Obviously, you would have changed it already if it was easy. 

Brenda  

Yeah. And I do for a while, but then I fall back into it

Marc David  

Yeah, so that’s the pattern. You’re able to do it for a while, just like you were able to do it for a while when you were younger. You were able to lose some weight, and you were able to control yourself. Then, all of a sudden, you find that you don’t really want to anymore, and here comes the food and increased body size. So in order to change that, we have to dig a little deeper to the origin so that you can see where that pattern comes from. There’s a part of you that needs to move out of your mom’s house.

Brenda  

That’s a good figure of speech, that one!

Marc David  

Yeah! Part of you needs to move out of your mom’s house because there’s a part of you that is still living there. You’re being your mom when you make your food rules, and you’re being young Brenda when you’re breaking the food rule. You have a glass of wine, then you have a little bit of this and a little bit of that until you kind of loosen up. It sort of feels good, otherwise, you wouldn’t do it. 

Brenda  

Yeah, true!

Marc David  

If it didn’t feel good, you wouldn’t do it. Emotional Eating feels good. We emotionally eat because food helps us regulate our emotions. Emotional Eating is not a bad thing. We’re emotional creatures. We eat at birthday parties. We eat out on a dinner date. We eat when we celebrate. We eat on holidays. And you know what? There are going to be times when you have a bad or rough day and having a favorite meal or dessert can make you feel good. You’ll know if you have a pet that when your pet is hungry, they don’t feel good, but as soon as they eat, they feel happy. They’re playing afterwards! They’re feeling good about themselves! So, food regulates our emotions. There’s nothing wrong with that intrinsically. It just gets problematic when it gets out of our control and when food is the only tool or the best tool that we have to regulate our emotions. 

So, I think your task is to look at what else you can do other than food. Instead of attacking the emotional eating: “oh my god, I’m an emotional eater. I better stop emotionally eating.” No. We will be humans who eat for the rest of our lives, and we will be emotional beings for the rest of our lives. Eating an emotion goes together. And emotional eating can be problematic when we’re doing it too much and it’s the only strategy we have to be with our emotions. So, your job, which you couldn’t do when you were younger, is to learn how to work with your uncomfortable feelings and your negative feelings of stress and anxiety. Your task is to ask yourself: “how do I be with that other than turn to food?” So,  let me ask you the question, what else in life do you do that helps you feel good other than eating food? What helps you destress?

Brenda  

Good question. I’m usually working. I get a really good sense of the warm and fuzzies when I can help my clients. That’s sort of how I’m driven, when I can help them overcome some challenges. It makes me feel really good if I can help a family member, or anybody.

Marc David  

Yes. Okay, got it. You work a bunch and work helps you feel good. Helping another human being to feel good, makes you feel good, great. We have to find things that you can do in the comfort of your own home when you get home from work, and when you’re out of the studio, to take care of the part of you that is conditioned to turn to food to deal with emotions. You’re not gonna be helping people at that moment, because you’ve been doing that all day. So, what else can you do? For example, listening to music, taking a shower, getting online and looking at fun videos that you like, calling up a friend who helps you relax. Is there anything that you can think of that you can do to help bring down your stress, your temperature, and your anxiety? Does anything come to mind?

Brenda  

Watch a good comedy movie. I love watching them when I get time. My granddaughter makes me very happy. Recently, I started making some clothes for her, because I haven’t done it for a long time. 

Marc David  

Are you knitting?

Brenda  

Both knitting and sewing. 

Marc David  

So, working with your hands to create something for somebody that you love. Here’s the thing: emotional eating, for many of us, becomes a habit. When I say “habit”, I’m thinking more so of an unwanted habit.  For example, an unwanted habit is smoking too much, eating when I’m tired, eating when I’m stressed, eating when I’m bored. An unwanted habit is: “I eat when I’m anxious and mad, and I even eat when I’m happy.” Those are automatic, repetitive unconscious habits that we just do and don’t even think about doing it. You’ve been doing this habit since you were young. You don’t have to think to yourself when you come home from the studio that you’re ready to destress a little bit, have some wine or something to drink, and then nibble and snack some more. You don’t have to remind yourself of that. You don’t have to make yourself do that. You automatically do that. The decision comes from beneath your awareness. So, what I’m saying is in order to change a habit that’s automatic, and repetitive, and unconscious; a habit that just does itself, we have to introduce consciousness. We have to shine a light on it. We have to say: “oh, wait a second, I’m about to do this unconscious habit that I normally do without even checking in with myself.” We have to interrupt that habit and say: “Oh, I don’t really want to do this. Why? Because I feel like being two sizes less.” You can’t just say I’m not going to eat because that’s too hard.

Brenda  

That’s right. That’s silly.

Marc David  

You’ve got to replace it with something. So, we’ve already come up with a few ideas. A homework assignment for you is to really think about and come up with some more ideas. We’ve come up with: watching a comedy movie, watching a comedy show, getting out the sewing and the knitting. This is for you to say: “here’s what I’m gonna do in the moment that I would normally reach for food.”

Brenda  

Yeah. Replace it with a better habit.

Marc David  

Yes, or a number of habits. Habits that you can pull off of your little menu of five or six different things that you can do besides emotional eating. And it doesn’t mean you eliminate all emotional eating. It just means that you’re aware of how much you’re emotional eating. You’ve said to me, “yeah, I normally might have a glass of wine, but then I might have a second one which loosens me up to have something else.” So, you have to introduce awareness. Like: “oh, I’m doing this habit that I said that I didn’t want to do.” The reason why we generally don’t do that is because it’s kind of work. It’s work to do that, and you’re already working all day. Even though work is fun for you, you want to relax.  This is the cost of changing an unwanted lifelong habit. There’s work in it. There’s practice, there’s effort, there’s consistency in it. That’s why I said at the beginning that your choice is to either accept that you have this pattern, or to roll up the sleeves and get to work a little bit. I’ve just been laying out for you what the work looks like, in my experience. Especially as it relates to emotional eating. How’s all this landing for you so far? Tell me how you’re sort of processing all of this.

Brenda  

Yeah. I think you’re saying everything that I know I should do, and when I focus on it, I do it. But then of course, we get slack when the stress comes in. These last 12 months have been extremely stressful. But you know, it’s easy to just go: “oh, my God, I’ve had such a hard day. I’m just gonna eat the last one. I deserve it because I’ve had such a horrible day.” So I think that what I need to start thinking is: “well, I deserve to be comfortable in my own skin.” I deserve more than just the thought of: “I’ve had a hard day, I deserve a glass of wine.”

Marc David  

Yes. Love that. That’s such a great reframe. The key for you is to realize that you’re adopting new strategies. This is not about you denying yourself. When you were young, your young mind accurately registered that you were being denied. That limitations were being placed on you that didn’t feel so good since you were being denied. There’s a young part of us who doesn’t want to be denied. Who says: “Don’t tell me I can’t eat food. Don’t tell me I don’t deserve to feel good from wine or snacks. Don’t tell me that! I don’t want to hear that!” So what you want to hear is: “I deserve to feel good.” And the biggest part of feeling good for you, from what you’re telling me, is being in a body that you feel comfortable in.

Brenda  

Yeah, exactly.

Marc David  

So, you deserve that. And because you deserve that, you deserve to be able to have other habits you could reach for in the moment to replace excess food and excess wine. 

Brenda  

Hmm. Yeah. 

Marc David  

That’s your new practice. And you know, something? There are going to be some days where it works and you get it down, and you’re so proud of yourself. And there’s gonna be other days where it’s been a really rough day, and you say to yourself that you deserve some wine, and you’re gonna go for the wine. When that happens, I just want to say to you that the key is to forgive yourself and remember that you’re not perfect. You remember that nobody is. You remember that you’re human; that everybody’s human. And then, you begin again the next day.

Brenda  

Yeah. I think I need to be more accepting of myself like I am other people.

Marc David  

Ah, that’s so good.

Brenda  

Yeah, I accept that they’re not perfect, and I try to help them do everything I can. So, I need to accept the same in myself.

Marc David  

Yes, that’s a sign of wisdom. It’s a sign of wisdom when you can actually give to yourself. You give so many gifts to other people. You give your students the gift of being non-judgmental. You give them a safe space. You’re not looking at them, criticizing them, and critiquing them. You’re looking at them and going: “hey, come on into class, and let’s move and let’s feel good!”

Brenda  

Yes, exactly. 

Marc David  

So, this is your time to do that for you. And this is what helps me do that: in the moment, when I realize that I need to treat myself like I treat other people, I invoke that feeling that I get when I’m supporting someone. I’ll think of an instance where I’m supporting somebody and where I help somebody feel really good about themselves, and I invoke that feeling in myself. It makes me feel so good when I help another person, and I literally bring up that feeling in the moment. You’ll notice that you’re already starting to feel it in relation to another person, and then you can say to yourself: “ah, that’s the feeling I want to aim at me.”

Brenda  

Yeah, exactly.

Marc David  

Well, I think you’ve got a good little roadmap here. I think it might also be helpful just in your own way, to remember what it was like for you as a young person in your early teens to be restricted. This might mean journaling or just giving it some thought to really remember what it was like for you as a young person. Then, give yourself that sense of freedom to eat and notice how that part of you is still living inside you. Begin to be a better parent for yourself than your parents were. And instead of being a bad girl who ate this, and shouldn’t eat that, you learn to always love your child, forgive them, uplift them, and give them some inspiration. You want to give your clients good guidelines, but also give yourself good guidelines. Give yourself good structure and healthy guidelines. Learn how to catch yourself when you go: “oh, I’m about to use food to excess and to regulate my emotions and ask yourself what else you can do in this moment to help yourself feel good, feel centered, and feel balanced.

Brenda  

Yeah. The funny thing is, I actually teach my clients to do those sorts of things.

Marc David  

Yeah, life comes full circle sometimes, doesn’t it?

Brenda  

Yeah. It occurs to me that I teach my students to have better habits. When they go to eat something, I encourage them to ask themselves what can you do instead? It just sort of hit me that that’s what I teach them. So, why am I not taking my own advice?

Marc David  

Yeah, often we’re the last person to take our own advice. And that’s okay. You are here and you are learning it. Part of it is that oftentimes, we teach what we need to learn. It’s true for me. Much of what I teach, I also need to learn. Teaching is a great way to learn because you’re constantly hearing the message.

Brenda  

Yeah. I think so. 

Marc David  

Yeah, good work Brenda!

Brenda  

Thank you. 

Marc David  

Are you feeling good about the conversation? 

Brenda  

Yeah, it just sort of puts things more into perspective in my mind that I need to be kinder to myself. The care that I give to my clients is something that I should give to myself as well. 

Marc David  

I think you’ve got some good homework, practices, and a good perspective. Thanks for being in this conversation with me, Brenda. Have a great rest of your day and your evening. Take care everybody and thanks for coming by.