Reclaiming Peace and Empowerment in Our Inner Dialogue with Food & Body – In Session with Marc David

Reclaiming Peace and Empowerment in Our Inner Dialogue with Food & Body – In Session with Marc David

Marc David 

Welcome, everybody. I’m Marc David, founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating. Here we are back in the Psychology of Eating podcast, and I’m with Hara today. Welcome, Hara.

 Hara 

Hi, thank you.

Marc David 

Well, you know, the idea here. We’re meeting for the first time, and we get to do a session together. And hopefully, you know, I’m going to do my best to help you get where you want to go. So if you could wave your magic wand, and if you can get whatever you wanted with food and body, what would that be for you?

Hara 

I would not worry about every single thing I eat. There’s a constant dialogue of, “I don’t even know what’s healthy anymore. I don’t know how to take care of me.” Because I’ve heard too many different people say too many different things. And so there’s no peace with eating. Whether it’s only health food in my refrigerator or not, I’m just — I don’t know.

Marc David 

So you just want to have some peace. And it sounds like you want to know what to eat.

Hara 

Yeah, but also, I think, “I’m 55 years old, and I should know what to eat.” And I have lost all the weight. I’ve been skinny and fat my whole life. And every diet works, until it doesn’t. And so I don’t want to diet anymore, of course. And I’ve had a real freedom last year from diet. But still not a freedom food. There’s no food freedom. There’s no peace when I eat.

Marc David 

So, okay. So no peace when you eat. And that’s completely understandable. But let me just make sure I understand where you’re coming from. So, you let go of dieting, you said, about a year-ish ago?

Hara 

Yeah.

Marc David 

And what does that look like for you?

Hara 

Well, it looked like what you’re scared it might look like. You know, you jump into the — so many strict diets that this was the first year since I think I was 12 that I didn’t diet. Seriously. And so, you know, I went full bore the wrong direction. Just, you know, they say, “Oh, you won’t eat all the crap because you’ll have to stop.” But I really did eat all — everything bad that I hadn’t allowed myself to for years, because I was always perfect on every diet. And so, but I have — what was the question?

Marc David 

I asked you about — you mentioned how you stopped dieting. So I just wanted you to say more, like, what that was, what that looked like, what that was like for you. So you’ve been answering my question.

Hara 

So I did overeat, and I did eat bad things, or things that are not healthy for me. And I have gotten back to healthy eating. And yet, I’m not weighing myself, but I know I’m not losing weight because my clothes. And I think it’s because — I think you once said that worrying about eating the bread is just worse than even eating the bread. And I think it’s all the worry I have about everything I put in my mouth. Because of all that, you know, “eat fat, get thin.” And then there’s another one, “don’t eat any oil, sugar or salt,” and another diet where you can eat anything you want, and as much salt as you want, or all the — you know, vegetables, but as much salt as you want. So, I just don’t know. I don’t know what healthy is. I really don’t.

Marc David 

Got it. That’s helpful. So I want to make sure still, that I know what you want here. Because, um, let me just say this — I’m hearing two different things.

Marc David 

Part of you is, “Hey, everybody’s saying something different about what healthy eating is. And how am I supposed to know what healthy eating is, if all the experts are saying something different and they’re really different?” But at the same time, you did mention, you said, “Oh, you know, okay, I stopped the whole dieting thing, and I maybe went a little crazy. But then I got back to healthy eating.” So you do have a concept of healthy eating.

Hara 

I think I do.

Marc David 

You think you do. Okay.

Hara 

I know I’m not losing any weight, although I don’t know the number, of course. But so I guess I know what healthy eating is. I know — I think I’m taking care of my body. So I even paid to get a DNA test where — and it’s supposed to tell you what foods to eat. And one part of it said, “limit oils.” And another part said, “make sure you get at least a tablespoon of oil a day.” So I mean, even that was contradictory. So I’m just — my brain hurts.

Marc David 

Yes. They’re covering all their bases. So you would like to lose some weight.

Hara 

Um, I honestly — yes, I would like to lose weight, because I’m uncomfortable. And there’s no magic number. I just want to be comfortable, and I want to be healthy. I really have come to love myself, and come to terms that, if this is the body I’m supposed to be in, I’m okay with that. It’s not a number I’m searching for. It’s truly peace I’m after.

Marc David 

Okay, it’s peace you’re after. So, I still want to tease out — I want to help you get clear about what you want, because when you get clear about what you want, it’s gonna be easy to get it.

So you talk about healthy eating, and talking about losing weight. I’m happy for you to want to lose weight. I always consider, you know, people who want to lose weight, or people who want to gain more muscle, or people who want to look a certain way — it’s our preference. Which is often different from being healthier.

So you say you want to be healthier. Let me ask you this question. Right now, would you consider — like, where are you on the healthy scale? In your mind, just in terms of your overall symptoms, level of dis-ease?

Hara 

That’s a great question. I am healthy. I, you know, the blood tests say so. I play tennis, I can move my body, I’m 55 years old, and doing well in that area. My blood pressure’s low. My heart rate’s great. You know, so I am healthy. But I’m uncomfortable with the blubber.

Marc David 

Got it. Great. Okay, that’s really good. We’re really getting somewhere. Because oftentimes, what happens is, when we want to lose weight, we attach, “I want to be healthy” to it.

Now, for some people, they might be carrying around excess weight, and it is causing a health challenge for them. It might be contributing to their diabetes. It might be contributing to joint pain. And it might be contributing, or part of a symptomatic picture of high blood pressure.

Marc David 

You know, what’s really fascinating is, whenever you take the sum total of all the obesity research that’s out there, obesity scientists cannot conclusively say whether extra weight on the body is a genetic issue, a psychosocial issue, if it’s a health challenge, or if it’s a health advantage. Because in different cases, it could be any one of those, or it can be a combination of those. So my point is, I just want you to be able to own your preference, and not affix health to it. Because for you, where your body is right now, you’re healthy.

Hara 

I see what you’re saying. I appreciate that. I mean, I not long ago was much thinner and felt really good, and enjoyed feeling really good in that body and that size. And so, you know, loving myself didn’t magically make the food conversation go away. So, okay, it’s not that I want good health, although I do.

Marc David 

Of course, you want good health.

Hara 

I do things to make sure that’s true. I do want to feel — I know when I’m thinner, I run better on the court. You know, I can I move better. I want that.

Marc David 

So, mission accomplished, so far, in the health realm. You’re a relatively healthy person. So whatever you’re weighing right now is not adversely impacting your health. I just think it’s important that we understand a human being can — you know, you can have your quote-unquote perfect weight, your ideal weight, and you can be very unhealthy.

There are all kinds of humans walking around, and all kinds of different weights, and all kinds of different levels of health and disease. So what we weigh guarantees nothing. When we get to extremes in weight, when people become extremely thin, anorexia, extremely overweight, you know, intense obesity — yeah, the extremes start to put us in the risk category, for sure. But there’s an interesting middle there.

 So, okay, so you want to lose weight, and — let’s just get back one more time to this health thing. Because you were saying, “Well, I don’t know what to eat to be healthy.” How big of an issue is that for you — healthy, just healthy? Now that we’re talking about what we’re talking about, because obviously, something that you’re doing in terms of eating must be helping you, or must be working for you because, according to all the tests, you’re healthy. So is figuring out what to eat for your health — is that important for you? And I’m just really asking, and it might be.

Hara 

I think I must know what healthy eating is, if I am eating what I’m eating and I’m healthy.

Marc David 

Yes, yes.

Hara 

So I hear you. I hear what you’re saying. I mean, I don’t overdo things that I know aren’t healthy or good for me. Like, you know, I don’t overdo sugar. But I do look at every label to make sure it’s not too much sugar, natural sugar. You know, everything is a question mark.

Marc David 

Yes. So you have your own internal guidelines based on all the information that you’ve gathered. And you’re following that as best you can. And so far, it’s working. So we’ll finish this part of the conversation. All I want to suggest to you, and suggest anybody listening in here, is that if you’re confused, you have every right to be confused about what’s healthy, because the experts all differ.

And the truth is different things work for different people at different times. And it’s all a moving target. And our job is to find out what works for us. And to arrive at a place, based on what I read what I hear, and what I do, my own self experimentation. “Oh, when I eat too much sugar, I don’t feel good. When I drink too much alcohol, I don’t feel good. When I eat too much of this or too little of that…” Whatever it is. So you gather your own information. You come to your own conclusions.

And any expert that you read, they work for you. They’re your consultants. But ultimately, you can hire a bunch of consultants, but you’re the person that hires them and fires them. You either listen to your consultant or you don’t. And you take back the power. And don’t let it all be confusing.

Just let it be, “Oh, I live in a world where there’s no one tried and true answer that everybody agrees this is the way all human beings should eat.” That’s not our planet. That maybe is some different planet. But that’s not our planet. So everybody’s different. You’re finding what works for you for health. So far, so good. And you’d like to lose some weight.

 So what do I do to lose weight? So, in the times when you’ve dieted and you lost some weight, and you felt like, “Okay, I’m where I want to be,” what happens for you, that the weight comes back on? How would you assess yourself? Like, “Here’s what goes on.”

Hara 

I think that I have to be perfect. Like, I’m going to do it the best that anybody’s ever done it, and so it’s so restrictive. And then I just get to a point where I can’t do it anymore, because it’s not natural.

Marc David 

Yes. So okay, you get to the point, “This is too restrictive. I’m trying to be perfect, but it’s not natural.” So then what happens?

Hara 

I just go back to — I feel like I have a problem with feeling full sometimes, or knowing when I’m full. Or what we would call — I say if I’m emotionally eating, I have no idea what the emotion is. But I eat past fullness. So that’s a problem. When I’m on a diet, I’m not doing that because there’s a limit, there’s a number, there’s a something that’s stopping me. But left to my own devices and — you know, I’ll just eat. I assume for comfort, but I don’t know what from, because I’m happily married, successful in business, living a full life, have a beautiful family. I don’t know. I don’t know what the emotion is.

Marc David 

Okay, that’s a great question. I want to table that for one second. Because I want to get an answer to my question, which is — and we were getting there. So you’re trying to — you’re following your diet perfectly, you get the weight that you want, and then you realize, “Damn, this is too hard to do.” Then what happens?

Hara 

Well, I think I just overeat. I, um — the one that sticks out to me is the last diet I was on was very restrictive of me measuring everything. But that is the diet that I got so slim on and felt so good. But as soon as I stopped that, and I decided no more dieting, I went — I started eating sugar again, for the first time in a dozen years. You know, I was like, “I just want to not diet,” and I went full bore, is what I’m saying. Like, the things you’re scared of that you say, you know, “Well, you’re gonna know what to eat.” I had — I just went everywhere. And I finally reined it in. But it took — I had a really rough, in terms of food, 2022.

Marc David 

So you had a rough 2022, but you’ve also been dieting since you were 12?

Hara 

Yes.

Marc David 

That’s rough.

Hara 

And it was real pleasant also to have no rules. Even though I’m not happy with the weight I’m at, whatever that is, I also was — it was a beautiful year of freedom from all the rules. And I’m acknowledging that, that I really appreciate it. Just, whatever. That was that year, and that’s what happened.

Marc David 

Yeah. So let me offer a couple of thoughts, as we kind of circle in on where things can move forward for you. So one thought is that there’s a part of you that’s an all-or-nothing type eater.

Hara 

In every area of my life.

Marc David 

Ah, every area. That’s so good, because that’s usually what happens when we’re an all-or-nothing eater, it means that there’s a part of us that has an all-or-nothing personality. Which means, when you’re all in, you are all in. You’re doing it. Not only are you doing it, you’re really doing it. You’re doing it great. You’re following the rules. You’re as good if not better than anybody else. And you’re on it. And when you’re on it, you feel good. And part of feeling good when you’re on your chosen diet, or when you’re all-or-nothing in on anything, when you’re in the all-phase of whatever you’re doing, there’s a certain high.

It’s a high because I’m just, I’m rolling here. But like you said, the state of perfection doesn’t exist in nature, or in the world. And what happens is eventually, we come back to our humanity. And eventually, we come back to my needs, my desires, my emotions. “I don’t like all these restrictions. I don’t like all these rules.” And another voice pops out. It might be the voice of the rebel in you. It might be the voice of the child in you. The child’s like, “I don’t want to do this. Just give me the candy.”

The part of you that wants to be perfect often sits at the head of the table. “I got to achieve. I got to be the best that I can be. I gotta be perfect.” And, great. You can really show up in your business life and your relationship life and your family life. You can create what you want.

The rebel in you is like, “I don’t want any rules. No more rules. I want freedom.” So really, what’s happening is there are conflicting voices in your head, and they each have a different agenda.

 And in a lot of ways, oftentimes our relationship with food is the place where we get humbled. It’s the place where we get made human. It’s the place where we become mortal. And we have to look in the mirror at where we’re not perfect. And understanding that perfection isn’t attainable.

Hara 

Right. I really feel like I know that in other areas. So I wonder — I mean, I feel like I know that, like I’m not a perfectionist, I feel like. But I guess if I’m all in, and I’m doing the best that anybody’s ever done, that is a perfectionist. I’m surprised to hear that.

Marc David 

Absolutely. Because on a certain level, if you can get this one thing down — “have my ideal weight, I’m gonna have it all.” Just this one piece, right?

Hara 

Yes, a hundred percent.

Marc David 

Yes. So that’s the promise you make to yourself. And what that does — now, again, I’m going to say, I honor your preference. You have every right to have a preference. You prefer a certain kind of relationship. You’ve created that for yourself. You prefer a certain income. Perhaps you’ve created that for yourself. So we all have our preferences, and our preferences are to be acknowledged and respected.

However, what happens with certain preferences is that we make them — we turn them into Gods, we turn them into a religion. “If I don’t get this preference, then I’m not really the real me. I’m not the best me. I’m not perfect. My life can’t really be what it truly should be or I want it to be, because I’m not getting his preference, and therefore, I’m not really okay.”

There are certain places in your life where you feel confident. Perhaps you feel confident in business. Perhaps you feel confident just just being a mom, being a partner. You don’t feel confident in your relationship with food. And the belief is — “if I lose weight, then I’ll be confident. But I’m not confident until I lose weight. But when I lose weight, the confidence is going to magically come.”

Now what happens is, you have lost weight in the past, you achieved your body, and then you felt really good. “This is great!” But what happens is, you had an outer shift. Okay, you morphed your body. I can make anybody lose weight. I kidnap you, I tie you up, and I don’t let you eat. And you will lose weight. Okay, nothing changes. That’s kind of what a lot of diets are. You’re basically being kidnapped, and you’re being chained in your garage. And you can’t eat. And as soon as those little chains come off, you’re like, “I’m free!”

So the way you’re going to have more body confidence, the way you’re going to feel more comfortable is to start to own the body that you have right now. And feel comfortable in the body you have right now. And confident. Comfortable. When people say, “I’m not comfortable at this weight,” — okay, there’s a certain amount of truth to that. There’s a certain amount of truth.

I feel more confident when I have a certain amount of muscle on my body. I feel more comfortable. But you know, something? I don’t lose any sleep over it. I’m okay if I don’t have enough muscle on my body to feel really comfortable. So when we say, “I’m not comfortable at my weight,” what we’re really saying is, “I’m not happy with myself at this weight.”

That’s what I believe you’re saying to yourself. Take away the word comfortable, and pretend you’re saying, “I’m just not happy with myself at this weight.” Everything depends on how we speak to ourselves, the kind of inner conversation we’re having.

Hara 

Right. Well, and I am — I feel like I’m so kind to myself. I’m always, you know — I talk to me as if I’m a little girl — “Good job, good try.” I really have found a way to be kind and loving. And this body is not stopping me from doing anything. Whereas, years ago it would have. I’m at my heaviest, and it’s not stopping me. I’m still out there. But I hear you.

And one thing you said that really is, somehow that’s ticking off the box for me is, I think I’m a great partner because of the way I accept my husband. That he is who he is, and I don’t try to change him. And somehow, you said something about my relationship with food, and I think I have to accept that relationship just as kindly. You know, that I’m not. That it’s all rules and judgment, rather than, “it is what it is,” and “love what is.” And it’s the one one area of my life where I’m not easy. And if I can look at it like I look at my relationship with my husband, which is, whatever he does is okay, because he’s perfect the way he is. And he’s obviously just different than me. That’s the same thing with food.

Marc David 

Brilliant. You are giving the relationship space. You’re giving your relationship with food space. And particularly when it’s your relationship with a part of yourself — like, great, you can give your husband space. Great, you can give your relationship with food space. In that space that you give your relationship with food, giving it just breathing room. “I gotta do this, your body has to look like that. My body has to lose weight.” That’s a lot of pressure on poor body. Because the body is constantly getting this message, since you were at least 12 years old, that this must change.

If you’re dieting since you’re 12 years old, the 12-year-old mind, which is an extremely vulnerable and impressionable mind, and heart and soul, is getting the message: “Actually, your body is not okay. It has to be different. When it’s different, we’re all gonna give it a big hug. But until it’s different, we don’t give it that big hug. And we’re not the real me. You’re not the real you until you have that body.” So there’s always going to be this nagging voice going on: “Well, yeah, all these other things are good, but…” And I think what is wanting to shift is this lifelong pattern of “this body needs to change in order for me to be me.”

Now, paradoxically, you can still have your preference to wish to lose weight. But you’ve spent so much time, so many years, trying to make the body change, that there’s a little debt to be paid. There’s a little rebalancing that wants to happen, I think. And that rebalancing is, give the wonderful body a little break. Give it a little space.

Now, you have been doing that, to your credit, when you said, “I don’t want to diet anymore.” So a part of you is realizing this doesn’t work. And so you’re already moving in that direction. Congratulations. And all I’m suggesting is I want you to move fully there. And own for a while, like, take six months and say, “This is my body. Not only is this my body, but I want this body.”

The reason why I’m going to imagine why you stay in marriage, and you stay in relationship with your loved one is because you want that relationship. Bottom line is, “I want this. This is important to me. I want this.” You gotta give your body the message that you want it. Because you’ve been giving it the message, “I don’t want you.” Ouch.

Hara 

Right. I so appreciate that.

Marc David 

Yeah, nobody wants to hear that message. But children, when they’re young, they don’t want to hear the message from mommy or daddy, “I don’t want this body that you have.” Ouch. But we keep saying that to ourselves. And when we repeat that mantra to ourselves, we create all kinds of chaos. We go from diet to diet. We’re looking to fix the unfixable. “Well, if I can just have the body I want, then it’s all going to be better.” No, it all gets better when we stop bullying our body.

Hara 

Right, right. I hear you. I am — truthfully, if I had this body forever, it’s not stopping me from doing anything. My husband and I have the best relationship ever. And I put myself out there, whereas a younger woman I wouldn’t have because I was maybe ashamed of my size. But that’s not stopping me anymore. And so I think I just need to have some kinder conversations. And I see, I really hear what you’re saying. I really appreciate what you’re saying.

Marc David 

Yeah. Not only is your body not stopping you. It’s affording you everything that you have. And then some.

Hara 

Right. Every time I can run on the tennis court, I’m like, “Woo-hoo,! You know, I’m really lucky.”

Marc David 

Yeah. The shift to wanting this body, it’s just giving it the message, as if it were your baby. As if it was that cuddly little baby, what message do you give your baby from the moment they pop out? “I want you, you are loved, I want you,” because we instinctively know that’s what helps a human being become their best self. And we do that from the beginning. We let that young human know, “You are wanted. You are loved.” And isn’t it interesting to let this body know at this weight, “I want you.” Because the alternative is no body at all. That’s the extreme alternative.

Hara 

Yeah. Well, and I do a podcast and a magazine. And I also photograph people who have disabilities, you know, so I’m forever grateful for what I do have, based on the the kind of people I speak with. My mother died very young. I’m really full of gratefulness. And I have to turn it into my body. Not just loving. What I’ve been doing is just being kind to little me. But I have to remember — I have to change it a little bit. I hear what you’re saying, that — not just be kind, like, “I love you, even though you’re fat, or you have fat.” That’s what I’ve been doing. I hear the difference in what you’re saying. So that’s beautiful. Thank you.

Marc David 

Yes, yes, you’re very welcome. And, you know, think of it like this. So, wisely, you’re speaking to that young child in you who does need love. And there’s also another part to invoke, which is the queen in you. The queen in you is the part of you that’s royal, that’s regal, that is in charge of yourself. That is giving, loving and bestowing, that knows — the queen knows who she is. The queen doesn’t sit on her throne and look at her queendom and say, you know, “Am I okay? Do I need to lose weight in order for you all to love me and listen to me?”

I know the queen owns herself. And then she just gives of herself. And there’s nothing in the way because she’s more than self-accepting. She’s giving, from a wealth. And this queenliness, this body, this being, this existence, provides that. So it’s you, stepping into your queen and really feeling how royal this body is. You might change it, you might shapeshift it at some point. You might not. Doesn’t matter. Because whatever it’s going to look like, you’re going to stay in your queen energy.

Hara 

Right, right. I really hear that. Thank you.

Marc David 

So I’m suggesting six months. And it’s sort of pretend time, like, “This is the body that I have. I’m going to honor it, and I’m going to inhabit it like never before. And I’m going to be more quote-unquote comfortable in it, because I’m not trying to change it.”

You could always come back to losing weight. But this will give you an experience of what it’s like to not be trying to tell your body what to do. To not be giving it conditional love and conditional acceptance.

Hara 

Yeah, I see now that that’s what I’m doing.

Marc David 

So you mentioned before, about being full. Tell me what helps you feel, “I’m ready to feel complete,” with a particular eating experience.

Hara 

Well, I mean, sometimes I do feel full and satisfied. I guess that’s the word — satisfied? Other times, I guess I’m blindly eating. I don’t know what it is, in particular. I feel like it’s not up to me, or a certain meal or anything. It’s just, I feel like it’s random. So I don’t know if I can answer that. I don’t know the answer.

Marc David 

Sure, sure. Okay. Do you tend to be a fast eater, moderate eater, slow eater?

Hara 

Moderate. And I have read your book. I did the slow — and also “only eat it, if it’s delicious”. That is not something I do every time, but when I remember, it’s brilliant. There’s just so many rules in my head. There’s so many things I’m supposed to keep track of and not — I don’t know. Wouldn’t it be great if I just ate for pleasure and nutrition? That would be great.

Marc David 

Okay. Let’s simplify it. Let’s see if we can simplify it to one rule, to one guideline. So here’s the one guideline — that you stay present and awake to all of your eating experience.

So when you say, “Well, I don’t know. Sometimes, you know, I can eat and feel full. And other times, I don’t know what I’m doing. I don’t even know why I’m eating, I don’t know what emotion is there.” So the reason for that is because a part of us checks out. Because eating has been problematic for you. As it is, for so many people. Eating is problematic. Even if it’s not problematic, we live in a high-paced society that is crazed with multitasking, that doesn’t necessarily give a lot of time to the eating experience. So we tend to eat unconsciously. We tend to eat unaware. We fuel. We stuff food down.

That becomes worse when we are challenged around dieting and food and weight. Because the part of you that has rules and guidelines, the all-or-nothing part, when you’re in the all-phase, you’re actually present. “I can only eat this. I can only that. I’m putting this my mouth. I’m only supposed to have this much, so I’m going to stop.” So you’re present. Those rules give you permission to be present. When you do the nothing-phase, “Well, I don’t want to follow any of these rules,” we go unpresent. We check out, and like, “I’m just gonna eat whatever I want.”

And the answer is allowing consciousness to be present, always. Awareness to be present, always. And it’s not the kind of awareness that’s putting down the rules, whipping you into shape — “You can only this amount. Oh, you ate that amount, and now you got to stop.” No, it’s a more gentle, relaxed presence. It’s the kind of gentle, relaxed presence that you give to your loved one. When you just kind of, you’re with them, and you’re listening to them. And you’re taking them in. And when your loved one, when your child, when your partner is talking to you, you’re there. You’re not doing something else.

So when you eat, the practice is — and it’s a practice. You’re not always going to get it right. So when you eat, the practice is breathing yourself into your body. You don’t have to know — if you feel like over eating, I would rather you notice, “Oh wow. I’m over eating.” You don’t have to stop yourself.

Just notice it, be present in that. Because the more you’re present in it, the easier it is to slowly learn how to manage it. But the key is to stay awake in the eating experience, because we want to check out. Because there’s this part of me that can be so perfectionist, and so on the rules, that I just want to go unconscious and eat whatever I want to eat.

So we’re finding a higher ground. It’s a middle ground, but it’s a higher ground, where I’m just with myself. I’m noticing, “Oh yeah, you know, I had a bad day, and I feel like eating a bunch of food.” That’s understandable. “Let me see if I can eat a little bit more food, but you know something? I’m going to eat it slow. I’m going to be present.” So that’s the other part of staying awake when you eat is — you like food. You might as well enjoy it. Because the more you stay present to it, the more you’re in relationship with it. And the more you’re in relationship with it, the better the relationship works.

Hara 

Right, right. No, I really love that. I can do that one thing.

Marc David 

Yeah, just be present. And presence then leads to — because you’re present, and you open up the refrigerator, there’s going to be moments where that awareness, that presence, draws you to the right food for you in that moment. There’s going to be times when it draws you to just binge on something. Okay. We’re human, that happens. Forgive yourself. And then, you move on.

Hara 

Yeah, that’s great. I love that.

Marc David 

So what are some of the key takeaways for you in this conversation?

Hara 

Well, you know, I’ve heard “relationship with food,” but for some reason, I wasn’t thinking of it as a real relationship. And so for me, that’s kind of a lightbulb moment. Because I want to treat it the way I would treat a loved one. Or, you know, I want to treat it differently, like a real relationship. And so that’s kind of a lightbulb. And to be present, I think, is really brilliant because I often am not. I know that’s true. And I think that will change things, and also soften me towards me. So I think that’s great. I think those are great.

Marc David 

Yeah. You have all the tools you need. You really do. And, you know, sometimes we just need to take the time to step out of “what I want in the future,” or “what’s going to give me happiness,” which is often the future. “I’m gonna have this right body, I’m going to have the right weight. And that’s going to do things.” Sometimes we just have to bring it all back into the now.

Hara 

You said something about being present. And I thought about something I ate yesterday, that I ate with trepidation. And then I thought about eating it with presence. And I thought, “well, that’s delicious.” Like, I don’t even think I appreciated it, because I was worried about it. And I just think being present and remembering to enjoy it will make a big giant difference. So, I don’t know. I knew I needed you to tell me that, but I don’t know why I needed you to tell me these things. Like, I feel like — but I really appreciate the conversation and you telling me these things. Because it hit home.

Marc David 

Yes, yes. I want to say one other thing. I think a big part of what you’re doing in your life right now, what you’re learning, is you’re learning how to trust your body and trust yourself. Trust your body, trust yourself, trust this aspect of your life. But a lot of it is trusting your body. And when I say, “trust your body” — means we don’t know when the body is gonna lose weight. We don’t know when it’s gonna get sick. We don’t know when it’s gonna die.

And when we spend a lot of time and energy worrying — like, yeah, take care of yourself. Sure. But taking care of ourselves, that can be fun. That can be a joy. Sometimes it’s work, but that’s okay because we have work to do. But there’s a place where you’re learning to trust. And part of learning to trust is being okay when you make mistakes. Being okay when it’s not perfect. Trusting that the body’s not going to abandon you. It’s not gonna all of a sudden punish you by gaining tons of weight. It’s trusting that you can have a good experience in this body. And it’s just sort of waiting for you to join in.

Hara 

I really like that. Yeah.

Marc David 

Hara, what a good conversation.

Hara 

I really, really appreciate it so much. I was so looking forward to this. Thank you.

Marc David 

I’m so glad we got to do this. I’m glad it was helpful for you. You’ve been great. I really appreciate you.

Hara 

Thank you. I appreciate you too.

Marc David 

All right. And thank you, everybody, for tuning in. Take care, my friends.