Psychology of Eating Podcast: Episode #241 – Getting Past The Fear of Getting Old

Is it ever too late to achieve your dreams? In this session, Marc David, founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating, guides Karma through a journey of discovery around what is possible for her at this point in life. At age 59, with a 30-year history of drug abuse, Karma feels like she is just getting started on building her purpose and serving others as a personal trainer and coach. To her, the biggest fear is getting older. While Marc agrees with her 100% about hitting the ground running with her passion and career, he also throws in 2 important cautions around how she will measure approval and success in her career, and how she will attract a man to be in relationship with. Watch this episode to see the full conversation, and learn what Karma’s new homework will be for this last era in her life.

Below is a transcript of this podcast episode:

Real people. Real breakthroughs. This is a Psychology of Eating podcast where psychology and nutrition meet to uncover the true causes of our unwanted eating concerns. Your relationship with food will never be the same. Now, here’s your host, eating psychology expert and founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating, Marc David.

Marc: Welcome, everyone. I’m Marc David, founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating, and we are in the Psychology of Eating podcast. And I am with Karma today. Welcome, Karma.

Karma: Thank you, Marc.

Marc: I’m glad we’re here. I’m glad we’re doing this. Let me just say a couple of quick words to viewers and listeners, and then you and I’ll jump in. So if you are a returnee to this podcast and you’ve been following me and us for a while, thank you, thank you. I’m glad you’re here.

And if you’re new to the podcast, here’s how it works. Karma and I are meeting together officially for the first time, and we’re going to spend about 45 minutes or an hour together and see if we can make some good things happen and push the fast-forward button on transformation if that is at all humanly possible.
So, Ms. Karma, if you could wave your magic wand and get whatever you wanted today from this session, what would that look like for you?

Karma: Marc, I am just trying to move forward in the right direction. I feel like I am at a point in my life—I’m 59 and I struggle with the fact that I’m 59. I have made a mess out of most of my life. And good things have been happening for the last 10 years, but I haven’t quite been able to manifest and put together what I want to do, that I know I’m capable of doing, and that I feel from the inside-out that I’m here to do. And I feel like I have a lot to offer people.

I want to bring it all together full circle. This is my time. I feel like it’s now or never, and I just want to realize my dreams, live my dreams, and move forward.

Marc: Got it. So as it relates to food and body, where’s the action for you? What would you like to see different?

Karma: Well, I’ll tell you. I’m a personal trainer, and I have always felt—and it’s probably why I’m a personal trainer. And it’s why I feel like I have to be in shape, and I have to look good. But I’ve always felt like my value has been placed in how I look and how I appeal and appear to everyone, but particularly the opposite sex. I have had struggles with food. I’ve been thin most of my life. I think I’m just genetically disposed to being thin, but I have had some struggles with food. And I have had significant weight gain, and it literally put me over the edge.

Now that I’m getting older and that’s something I can’t control. My food I could control; my aging I can’t control. But it’s all inexplicably tied to my feeling like I have to look a certain way in order to be of value.

Marc: Got it.

Karma: And I’ve struggled with that my whole life.

Marc: So if you hit the sweet spot, what would it look like for you? What would you look like so that you could feel great about yourself? What would that be?

Karma: Well, I would like to slow down the aging process. That’s really, really, really important to me, and I’m trying to do everything humanly possible to do that as far as fitness and nutrition. I think I’d just like to make peace with who I am and accept myself as who I am whether I have more wrinkles, less wrinkles, 10 pounds more. Just to be content with who I am and love myself as I am, however that evolves as I get older.

Marc: Makes perfect sense. So you mentioned before about, yeah, this is your time in life. You’d love to realize your dreams. Give me a few nuggets about what your dreams are for yourself.

Karma: My dreams are to serve people—as I said, I’m a personal trainer, and I’ve been doing that for 10 years. And I have felt that something was missing in the direction I was going with that. I am in your eating psychology course, and it is bringing me full circle in being able to serve women particularly over 50. I want to reach more women. I want to help more people. I want to serve more people.

I’m writing a book, and I’d like to see that come to fruition. I was addicted to drugs for 35 years, so I feel like I missed out on a lot of what other people that were not in that situation were growing and developing through their 20s and 30s and creating careers. I never did that. So this is my time to create my career and to be the person that I’ve never been able to be because I’ve been crippled by that addiction. That’s really what I see in the future is just being able to serve other people, particularly women in my age group and get my word out there. And the addiction, the addictions I should say, and I’ve had my bouts with food.

It’s all part of the picture, but I know that I have a lot to offer. And I also struggle with ADD, and it can be crippling at times. I just want to be free who I’m supposed to be, and I know and I feel and I’m driven. And I just want to put it all together, Marc.

Marc: Mmhmm. So when you say you want to put it all together, I think I understand what you mean. And it’s a big goal. It’s a big goal. You’re setting your sights high. I think that’s really great. When are your best times? When are the times where you go to yourself, “Wow. I’m liking myself. I like my body. I’m okay with the fact that I’m 59”? Do those moments happen for you?

Karma: They do. They do. Yeah. They do. Frequently, they do. And I think those moments are when I’m doing the right things and when I’m nourishing my body and eating right which I do most of the time. I have my moments which I chalk up to emotional and stress-eating. But I also very much believe in the exercise component for me. It’s my drug. And, yeah, I feel alive when I’m eating right and I’m exercising and I’m moving in the right direction, that I’m not distracted and lost which I’ve been most of my life.
Marc: Understood. So what do you think gets in your way? In one sentence or less. One sentence or less, see if you could like pinpoint… And this is opinion. I don’t think there’s any right answer, but if you’re diagnosing yourself, what do you think gets in your way?

Karma: Fear.

Marc: Makes total sense.

Karma: Disorganization.

Marc: Mmhmm. Fear. Disorganization.

Karma: Fear is a big one, Marc. Fear is a big one.

Marc: Yeah. Mmhmm.

Karma: Fear, disorganization, distractions. Just getting off course. I struggle with that a lot.

Marc: What gets you off course?

Karma: Anything. Squirrel. It’s hard for me to focus. Getting a grip on that, I just truly feel this immense, innate drive that it’s now or never for me. But it’s fear of failure. It’s fear of not being good enough. It’s fear of not measuring up for the most part. That would be the biggest thing.

Marc: Yeah. So of all the things that you do in your life, what are some of the things you are best able to focus on?

Karma: Exercise.

Marc: Okay. Exercise. Exercise for you or when you’re working with someone else? Both?

Karma: Both. Exercise and helping women. I get very, very involved with my clients. I’m connected with them daily. I do not want them to fail. I take it very personally. So that’s a big thing for me. Serving people. I do a lot of volunteering. That’s a turn-on for me.

Marc: How about mothering?

Karma: Mothering I’ve struggled with. I thought I wanted to have one little girl that I can get manicures and pedicures with and I did in vitro when I was 42. And just short of my 44th birthday, I had three boys. So it was hard in the beginning, and I actually gained a lot of weight when they were young. I gained 40-50 pounds and very, very, very, very depressed. But, yeah, mothering has been a real challenge for me, and it’s probably because I haven’t had a lot of mothering myself.

Marc: How were you able to let go of drugs after three-and-a-half decades? How did you do it?
Karma: Well, it brought me to my knees. I was homeless for six years, living on the streets. Didn’t want to live anymore, and that’s not the first time I felt that way. I’ve probably been down that road a dozen times. I was living in an abandoned hotel, and I had nothing to live for. And that’s when I turned to God. And just some opportunities came my way. It wasn’t easy. It took a while, but I’ve been clean since 2000.

Marc: Wow. Congratulations.

Karma: Thank you.

Marc: Good for you. Good for you.

Karma: Interestingly enough, Marc, my addiction then transferred to food. And I had a very difficult time for the first three or four years with my weight and with eating. It was just like, “Okay. I’m off drugs, now I’m on food.” So it’s funny how those things work. I have had those experiences with food. I think I can relate to a lot of different struggles, and I know that through those struggles that I can help a lot of people. I firmly believe that.

Marc: Where were you born?

Karma: Chicago.

Marc: Are your parents still alive?

Karma: No, they’re both deceased.

Marc: How did they get the name Karma for you?

Karma: I have an older sister named Karla, with a K. And they knew nothing about the meaning of Karma. Matter of fact, I told them when I was a teenager. Well, actually I told my mom. My parents were divorced when I was six months old. But, yeah, they were clueless. Clueless. So Karla and Karma.

Marc: That’s great. Okay.

Karma: Yeah. I like it.

Marc: Are you in a relationship now?

Karma: I am not.

Marc: Do you want to be?

Karma: Yeah, I really want to be. Very much so.

Marc: Mmhmm.

Karma: Definitely something lacking in my life.

Marc: Any prospects?

Karma: No.

Marc: Who do you notice gets attracted to you?

Karma: That’s a tough one. I feel like a lot of men check me out. I don’t typically engage in conversation with them, but I have that feeling. Because I don’t actually speak to most of them, I can’t speak to their character what type of person they are. I had a six-month Match.com wedding in 2012 which lasted six months, and it was a mistake. And I really haven’t done a lot of dating since then. But I’ve been married three times. Four is the one I think they said. Isn’t that what they say? Four is the one. The fourth.

Marc: How long you want to live till? What age?

Karma: 90.

Marc: That’s a good number.

Karma: Yeah. As I said, I have 14-year-old boys, so I want to be around. And I plan on it. I think it’s a mindset.

Marc: Yeah, I think so too. I think so too. So you pretty much feel like you take care of yourself well with exercise and food these days?

Karma: For the most part. I don’t strive for perfection. I work out four or five days a week, and I love it. I eat well. I could probably improve the quality of my food, but again, I get into the it’s so expensive. But for the most part, I eat well. I do. I may have a Sunday where I go a little off, but I’m right back on it on Monday.

Because for me, the alternative is to—back to that I feel like I have to look a certain way. And I don’t want to be overweight. I don’t want to be out of shape. It’s not who I am. And when I even feel like I’m that way, it really messes with my mojo. So I’m very driven from that standpoint. And it may be a little superficial in some ways, but I’m not going to look and feel the way I want to feel if I veer too far off course.

Marc: Understood. Understood. I think I’ve got some good information to work with here.

Karma: Okay. Good.

Marc: Yeah. And you’ve said a number of things that you want from this session because I did ask you to wave your magic wand and put out whatever wish you wanted. And amongst the things that I’ve heard, this is a time in your life you feel like it’s now or never. You want things to come together. You kind of want your dreams to come together. You want to be able to do work that’s fulfilling for you. You want to be able to love your body no matter what. Hey, whatever. It’s like just love yourself and be okay with yourself with who you are. And those are the key things that I heard.

It would be great to kind of transcend the ADD thing and not get distracted by things because that’s a difficult one. And you want to bring it all together in this last third of your life is what I’m getting.
Karma: That’s it. That’s pretty much it in a nutshell. Throw in a good man, and we’re good to go.
Marc: Yeah, you didn’t say that one, but I brought it up. So I’m going to give myself…

Karma: Right. You did.

Marc: Yeah.

Karma: You did. Thank you.

Marc: So what I’m going to do is I am going to in one sense focus on the big picture even though we’re going to get specific. But really, my personal agenda with you is to say whatever I can say and do whatever I can do in this moment to help set you up for what you want, which is for things to come together in this last portion of your life, in this last third of your life. Because that’s really it. Because things coming together includes all these things we’ve been talking about.

So the big picture is this sense of “I’m 59. Man, I’ve had a long, interesting, crazy, rocky road,” and it’s your time now. I want to 100% agree with you. And I do agree with you that this is your time and now’s the time. 100% agree. Why do I agree? Because, A, you said so, and I believe you. B, I understand that, yes, age 59 for a human is time. It’s time. It’s time. It’s time. You’re not 20. You’re not 30. You’re not 40. You’re 59. And this is the time when we get clear. It’s like, “Okay. I’m not a mortal. I’m not going to live forever. I’m not ready to die. There’s things I want to make happen in this life. There’s things I want to experience. It ain’t over, and now’s the time.”

So that 100% makes sense to me, especially because you’ve had some difficulties in life where you’ve been not living your dream. And you’ve been not living your best self, so you know what that feels like. You know you’re not going back in that direction. So I’m all for you getting where you want to go. And what I want to do is just kind of popcorn out some highlights for me that show up in my mind that I think might be helpful for you.

Karma: Okay.

Marc: And I’m going to just say this and say things in no particular order. The first thing that has my attention is oftentimes when we are gathering up our forces and looking at our last kind of hurrah—because you’re planning for the last leg of your life, and that’s a lovely thing—there’s two particular challenges that I want to notice for you. Particular challenge number one is there’s a place where I’m concerned just a little that you’re setting your sights so high that you won’t notice the successes that you’re having.

Here is what I mean by that. I want you to be careful around the professional thing and the career thing and the book thing and getting yourself out there because what could happen—I’m not saying this is 100% you, but I’m saying what often happens is when humans feel like, “Whoa, I’ve been out of the game for a while. Wow. I want to make something of myself and of my life now,” we end up shooting so high. “I’ve got to be famous. My book’s got to be a bestseller. I’ve got to be doing all these things.” We go to the opposite.

I don’t want a successful book to be the measure of your success. I don’t want thousands and tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people following you as a measure of success.

Karma: Okay.

Marc: If that’s your measure of success, you are setting yourself up for a lot of difficulty because that’s a difficult road. There’s not a lot of people who have successful, bestselling books. It’s a tiny amount, and I mean tiny. And a lot of the bestselling books out there are nonsense anyway and are not going to do anybody any good. And a lot of the people who get the big audiences are not necessarily the ones who have anything great to say.

Karma: Okay.

Marc: So that’s just a little caution. A little caution like just in the professional zone.

Karma: Mmhmm.

Marc: That’s one piece. Another piece here is that on the one hand I hear you embracing the aging process, and on the other hand you’re fighting it tooth and nail.

Karma: Absolutely.

Marc: You’re fighting it tooth and nail. I get it. And I just want to say straight up, you must handle that piece very deliberately and starting now. And what I mean is this: you’ve got to get good with God. You’ve got to get good with life. And you’ve got to get good with the fact that the body ages, and you ain’t any different from the gazillions of people who have come and gone on planet earth. You’re going to die. I’m going to die. We’re all going to go there. We’re all going to get old and wrinkly. And it sucks. To the degree that it sucks, I’m with you. And it’s not fun. To the degree that it’s not fun, I’m with you. You’ve got to get good with that.

Somehow, you have to find a way to get good with that. Where you are getting hooked big time is this nonsense where you feel that you have to look a certain way to attract a man.

Karma: Yes, I agree.

Marc: You’re really caught by that one, like big time. And I say that affectionately. And you’re not the only lady. Trust me, there’s far too many of them. I get to speak with so many different women who weigh two times as much as you do who have beautiful relationships, who are 15 years older than you and have beautiful relationships.

We’ve been so conditioned. We have been so conditioned that we don’t realize how brain-washed we are. The men that you want in your life—if you have to be obsessed over your looks and every wrinkle, if you’re living from that place and attracting from that place, you’re probably going to attract from that place. If you just kind of cut loose and it’s like, “Hey, this is me. Guess what. I’m aging just like you are,” because the guy you pick is going to be getting wrinkles too. He’s going to have issues too. And his cells are going to be dying too.

There’s a level where—and I’ve got to tell you this. I’m going to now talk like I’m your older brother here right now.

Karma: Okay.

Marc: And tell you that the degree to which you think men give a shit about how you look and the degree to which they actually give a shit are two completely different things. Meaning, what you think men want and what they actually want is two different things. Are there men out there who specifically want this, that, and the other thing and it’s totally not you? Yes. So you cross those guys off your list. How easy is that?

You cross every freaking human off of your list who crosses you off of their list because, “Oh, she’s 59. Oh, she has a wrinkle. Oh, she’s getting older,” or whatever it is that’s living in your head. “Oh, she’s too this. She’s too that. She’s not muscular enough here. She’s not whatever.” Cross them off your list. Why are you trying to attract those guys?

I’m not saying don’t take care of yourself. I’m not saying don’t be with your looks and your fitness and your food in a way that you like and in a way that makes you feel good about yourself and dignifies you. I want you to take care of yourself. But there’s a difference between taking care of yourself and being obsessed. There’s a difference between taking care of yourself and trying to change something that you can’t change.

So you’re fighting a battle that is so impossible to win that it is taking all your forces. And, when you’re fighting battles that take your energy that can’t be won, it increases your ADD because you don’t have enough energy to focus. Because you’re focusing on a battle that you can’t win. It’s snowing here in Colorado. I don’t like the snow. When the first snow comes, I fight it. It doesn’t look like that, but I’m busy like trying to duke it out with the snow so it doesn’t snow. Big waste of energy. Drains my energy. It actually de-focuses me.

So other things that I need to focus on I can’t because my resources—mental energy, emotional energy, psychic energy—are in a battle. That’s a bunch of nonsense. So what I’m saying is you’ve got to push the spiritual pedal to the metal here, young lady. This is your time. If you want to get what you want—here’s my belief system.

For me, this is my religion, and I’m suggesting that I think it’s a good one. If you want to have what you want to have in the latter portion of your life, you have to do that which life is asking us to do in the latter portion of our life, what God is asking us to do, what a higher power is asking us to do which is to operate more in that zone. Operate more in the unseen world, more in the spiritual world, more with universal law, God’s law as opposed to human law, man’s law, woman’s law, which is, “Oh, I’ve got to seduce in order to get what I want. Oh, I’ve got to look like something that I’m not in order to get the guy. I’ve got to rope somebody in based on trickery.” No.
At this phase of your life, you get your best guy by you being you.

Karma: Right.

Marc: You being the true you, and you being the true you, you’re a queen. You’re not 30 years old. You’re maturing like a fine wine, and what keeps a woman beautiful—and this is older brother talking to you once again. I’m not being a counsellor right now. I’m being your buddy. I’m being your older brother here. What keeps a woman beautiful is when she stays in her radiance. I know you’ve seen this. I’ve seen this.
I’ve seen women in their 80s and 90s, and they walk into a room and I’m like, “What is that? What’s different about you? Something’s different. You ain’t an old lady. I know you’re old, but you ain’t an old lady.” And what they are is they’re in touch with their light. They’re in touch with their vibrancy. They’re in touch with their energy. They’re in touch with their femininity as it is right now. They’re juicy in who they are. They’re connected to something higher. They’ve learned their lessons. And they’re not worried about the nonsense that a 25-year-old worries about.

Right now, there’s a part of you that’s still being a 21-year-old princess who wants to feel the goodies.

Karma: Okay.

Marc: And that’s understandable. But there’s a place where you have to graduate yourself quickly. You have to graduate yourself from princess to queen. It doesn’t mean that there’s not a little princess in there somewhere. There is. You’ll always have her. She’ll always be there, but you’ve got to get with the program that you’re in the queen phase of your life.

And in the queen phase of your life, it’s not about every little specific particular thing about your body. That’s not what a queen does. A queen doesn’t sit on her throne and talk about her abs. Do you know what I’m saying?

Karma: Yeah. Yeah.

Marc: A queen doesn’t sit on her throne and argue about, “Should I use stevia or should I use a little bit of agave?” or whatever the heck people talk about. It ain’t that. That’s not the conversation. You know enough about good food to take care of yourself.

Karma: Absolutely.

Marc: You know enough about good exercise to take care about yourself. That’s enough. It’s enough. Do what you know how to do in that realm—here’s the target we’re shooting for—and then let it go. Right now, you put so much energy there, so much energy there. And really, where your energy needs to go is to manifesting this last phase of your life which is going to come to you as you use the kind of resource you’re supposed to use for this phase of your life which is not being a seductive, little princess, which is not attracting through “let me pretend to be somebody I’m not so you like me,” but it’s being you.

You don’t need 100 guys to like you or love you or fall in love with you. You just need one great one. Just one. Just one. Just one. Just one. So the fact that you can cross many people off of your list because they don’t like this or like that, good. That actually takes you where you want to go faster. I kid you not, but there’s a part of you because you had a big chunk of your life where you were not progressing as fast as you would have. And now, since you’ve been sober, you’ve been progressing really quickly. You’ve been on a fast-track, is my guess. Because the fact that you were addicted for that long and you have turned it around this dramatically, that’s pretty amazing. That’s huge. It’s huge.

So that tells me that you can continue on in that same vein and that you can continue to have success. And to continue to have success, you have to play by the rules of life. Not your rules. So in order to play by the rules of life, whatever that means, higher power, God. You said God first, so I’m going to talk God talk here.

Karma: Okay.

Marc: Because I like that.

Karma: Yeah, it’s a big part of my life.

Marc: Okay. So then you’ve got to get with God’s program more. And it’s kind of easy. You just watch. You just look at the world and how it works. That’s how God talks a lot of times. It’s just here it is. If you want to step into your power, you step into your royalty. If you want to have the goods in the latter part of your life, then you become royalty, meaning you become, for you a woman, you become a queen. You start to give which I know you’re doing. That’s very important to you. You say you want to give. Great. That’s how you do it. Every client becomes your queendom. Every client is a part of your queendom. Every person you serve is a part of your queendom.

Every person—here’s how you be a good queen. Everybody that you come in contact with is part of your queendom. How do you wish to be a queen? When you go into a supermarket and there’s a guy checking you out, he’s part of your queendom actually. He lives in your universe. Are you noticing him? Are you checking him out? Are you responding? Do you give a smile back?

Karma: I smile at everyone.

Marc: Good for you.

Karma: I just believe in that.

Marc: Mmhmm. Good for you. You could even get a little flirtatious if you want sometimes. Do you ever do that with men?

Karma: Since I had that catastrophe six-month marriage, I’ve really kind of withdrawn quite a bit. I’ve probably been on 10 dates in three years. I’m busy, and that may be an excuse. I don’t want to fail again.
Marc: Yeah.

Karma: I have never had a healthy relationship with men. Never. And I believe I’ve come full circle in that I can at this point in my life. I just don’t know how to go about it. And I keep thinking that God will bring the right man in my life when the time is right. And I’m so focused on getting where I want to be and having the pieces fall together so that I can make my boys proud of me and be financially secure and have all those pieces come together that I think that a man might be a distraction. As starved as I am for love and just an adult to talk to, it seems like another distraction, and I don’t want to screw up again.

Marc: Understood. So I think that’s very wise. It might be a distraction, and it might not be. So we don’t know actually. We don’t know if it is or it isn’t. I’m glad you have your eye on that. I’m glad you understand, “Hey, okay. I haven’t had the best track record here.” So that’s good to create caution and moving slowly. But at the same time, I guess what I want to say to you is this feels a little bit more important than I think… I think it’s more important. I think it’s important.

I think it’s important for you to have your attention there in a different way. More so. Have more attention there, and here’s what I mean. It’s like, okay, you don’t want to make a mistake. I get it. There’s legitimate fears. I get it. At the same time, it’s okay for you to move slowly in that process.
Karma: I’m not moving at all.

Marc: So I prefer you move slowly which means you need to speed up. And speeding up means you open yourself up more. It means you admit to God, “Okay, this is not the best place. This is not something I’m great at. I need some help here. And I want to be open.” And sometimes we might have to learn a few things, learn a few lessons along the way in order to prepare ourselves. So I don’t want you to deny yourself those experiences.

You might have to make a few screw-ups. But the reality is my sense is if you’re staying awake at the wheel, you’re not going to make a humongous mistake, if you move steadily and slowly. Maybe you moved a little too fast last time.

Karma: Yes, I did.

Marc: Yeah, you got excited. It happens. You got excited. It happens to a lot of people. You ain’t the only gal this has ever happened to—or guy. The world is filled with people who jumped into something too quickly.

Karma: Yeah.

Marc: You know what I’m saying?

Karma: Yes, I do. I do.

Marc: So that’s a very human experience. What I’m saying is that there is a place where I think if you start to allow this part of your life to express itself more, it’s going to just feel a little better to you. It’s going to feel a little more juicy. You will be afraid. I think the main thing that’s stopping you, plain and simple, is the fear. It’s just fear. Fear of getting hurt, fear of doing the wrong thing. I totally get it. But there’s also a part of you that’s probably a little bit excited at the possibility, and I would love for the excited about the possibility part of you to get more air time because that is what is going to help you feel younger.

Karma: I believe that. Yes. That hadn’t occurred to me, but you’re 100% right. I do believe that.

Marc: Yeah. So what’s going to happen is you’re going to focus more on the looks, the food, the cosmetics, the exercise, the this, the that in order to feel beautiful so you can attract a man. Just be in the game more. Figure out. Get online. Go on some dates. Go slow. Be judicious. Be cautious. Have fun on your dates. And practice being the hot chick a little bit more. What do you hear when I say that? When I say to you practice being the hot chick, what do you actually hear?

Karma: I hear, “I used to be.”

Marc: Okay.

Karma: I can do that, but I’ve been the mom. I’ve been very focused on taking care of my responsibilities which is something I didn’t do for most of my life.

Marc: I get it. So this is where we become more flexible in moving in and out of our roles. So part of getting older and getting what you want is understanding the roles that you’re playing in life and being able to jump in and out of those roles as needed.

Here’s what I mean. When you’re a mother, you’re a mother. In the moment you’re being a mother, you’re being a mother. There’s nothing else. In the moment you’re working with somebody in a fitness session, you’re a fitness professional. That’s what you’re doing. That’s the hat you’re wearing. That’s who you are. You’re not being a mother necessarily in that moment. Your kids are not there. You have a different persona on. And then when you’re out on a date, I want you to be the hot chick, in a sweet way. You have to invoke what that used to feel like, and you have to be that person now. It’s not dependent on your age. It’s dependent on how you feel and how you show up and how you radiate.

If you’re radiating, “Hey, I’m pretty good with myself. I like myself. You wish you had some of this,” that’s what gets attention. At this stage of the game, a man wants a woman who knows herself, who’s secure in herself, who loves herself, who takes good care, period. Just good care. Takes good care of whatever, her kids, her world, herself, her partner.

Karma: Right.

Marc: They want somebody reliable. You want someone with depth is my guess.

Karma: Yes.

Marc: Then show up as that person. Show up as a woman of depth. Show up as a woman of character. And for every man you scare away, as much as it’s a nuisance, you go, “Thank you, God. Cross that guy off the list.” Because it keeps putting you closer to where you want to go.
Karma: Okay. I’ve only felt like scaring them away. I haven’t really met someone that I wanted to be that sexy girl.

Marc: Mmhmm.

Karma: I don’t know if it’s a matter of quality. It’s difficult.

Marc: It is difficult. It is difficult, but here’s the thing I want to say to you. You will get better at this as you choose to have more fun with it. Just have fun with it. Even if you’re on a first date and you realize after the first 15 minutes, “Oh, my God. This ain’t happening. This ain’t happening,” I want you to have fun with it.

How could you have fun with that? You go, “Listen. You might hate me for this, but I’m a woman. I’ve got my woman’s intuition. I actually think you’re a really sweet guy. I just don’t get that we’re a match. I just don’t feel that kind of chemistry. I wouldn’t mind spending 15 or 20 minutes more hanging out and just kind of asking each other questions and maybe talking about the dating experience. If you want to finish this up now, that’s totally okay with me.” That would be interesting. That would be a risk.
Karma: I could do that. I could do that. Maybe make a friend.

Marc: Yeah. Maybe make a friend, maybe as a brother. But what I mean is to look at it as, “Okay, this is fun, and that didn’t work. And that didn’t pan out, and that’s okay. That’s what the dating process is.” I am harping on this by the way in part because I see this as, interestingly enough, a straighter strategy to get where you want to go. We can talk about you and your relationship with body and with food and with body image and with loving and accepting your body. We could work on that and there’s places to work there.

But I kind of just feel for you that there’s a place where it’s time to get into the game. And it’s time to be a little bit more in circulation. You might not meet Mr. Right until two more years or a year or two months. We don’t know. But I want to see you start taking steps now because that’s going to help get you more current with who you really are. It’s going to help get you more current with your age and with your archetype right now.

If you want to be a queen, then look to date men who are acting more like kings.
Karma: Okay.

Marc: A good king is not going to say to you, “Oh, I want a woman who’s perfect. You’re not perfect for me.” No. That’s not where a good king goes. A king is going to look at you. He’s going to look at your character. He’s going to look at your life. He’s going to look at how he feels around you, about how you show up, about how you smile. He’s going to look at your heart. He’s going to look at your spirit. Do you go to church?

Karma: Do I go to…? Yes, I go to church every week, and I volunteer there during the week.

Marc: Do you meet men through church?

Karma: No, not really. I think I have a persona that I’m unapproachable.

Marc: Says who?

Karma: I don’t know. I don’t meet men… I don’t know. I don’t meet men. And I’m not sure why. I can only think that. I’ve had men tell me that I’m intimidating. I don’t feel like I’m intimidating. I don’t know, Marc. I don’t know, but I think you did hit on something that is severely lacking in my life. Because I’ve never had a real, loving, nourishing relationship with a man ever. And who the heck wants to go through life like that?

Marc: Mmhmm.

Karma: It’s a void.

Marc: Mmhmm. I know there’s Christian dating sites online.

Karma: Ugh.

Marc: Have you tried any?

Karma: I have tried one. Yes.

Marc: Mmhmm. Okay. So I would love for you to start creating a little bit of a game plan for yourself.

Karma: Okay.

Marc: Consider the online universe again. People get burned. I know it’s hard. I know it sucks, and people also meet people that way. So it takes time. It’s trial and error. It takes time. You have to have a good digestive system for a little bit of disappointment. It’s like, “Okay, that didn’t work. Okay, that didn’t work. That didn’t work.” But what you’re doing is you’re making steps, and you are saying, “I am open.”

You are softening yourself because right now one of the reasons you’re not meeting men is because you’re not open to it.

Karma: I think you might be right there.

Marc: It’s that simple. Are you intimidating to men? Sure, to the men you’re intimidating to, they’re intimidated by you. Are there men who are not intimidated by you? Absolutely. Women can be intimidating. Certain women are more intimidating than others to men. We don’t care about that. It doesn’t matter. Truly doesn’t matter. What matters is that you’re open.

Because if you’re open, then things happen. Simple as that. If you’re open and there’s a natural softening that happens. It doesn’t mean you’re not going to be afraid. It doesn’t mean you’re not going to be scared. It doesn’t mean you’re not going to be nervous. It doesn’t mean you’re not going to be anxious. You will likely be all of those things.

Do you have girlfriends that you could talk about this stuff to?

Karma: Oh, sure. Yeah.

Marc: Okay. I really want you to have girlfriends or a girlfriend who is your support system in getting out there and dating. Her job is to be a cheerleader for you. No matter what happens, just be a cheerleader and just support you in getting out there and support you in getting out there. And when you get disappointed, you can talk to her and she juices you up again.

Karma: Okay.

Marc: Because part of it is… Hmm. Yeah. You and aging and body and food, less important. It’s less important than you think. You give it a lot of importance because…

Karma: I had to breathe when you said that because it stresses me out to think about it being less important because I’m so hyper-sensitive to turning 60.

Marc: Yes.

Karma: It’s like I can’t let up on anything because I’m going to be 60 in six months, and then what happens?

Marc: Right. Okay. Stop with the numbers. Just stop. Just stop it. How many guys out there are 59 or 60? How many guys out there… There’s tons of people for tons of people.
Karma: The world is more kind to a 59-year-old man than it is to a 59 or 60-year-old woman, in my opinion.

Marc: I agree with you. I agree with you which is why you’ve got to be more kind to yourself to make up for it. Did you catch that?

Karma: Yes, I did. And my first thought was, “I have a real problem being kind to myself.”

Marc: I know.

Karma: Yeah.

Marc: I know. I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it. And that is what this stage of life is about for you. I want you to keep the queen image in your mind. That is a good image for you of a—think of just a royal, regal, beautiful queen sitting on her throne who’s 60 years old, 61 even. And she’s in her body and she’s loving herself and accepting herself. You’ve got to get current with that. You’ve got to get current.

This is like you looking in the mirror every single day and accepting that you’re in your queen phase. Because if you don’t accept that, you’re going to stay a princess. You’re going to stay a 19-year-old, and you’re going to use 19-year-old distinctions to meet a man. And then you’re going to be disappointed because your 19-year-old is going to find another 19-year-old guy who happens to be 58 or 59. And that’s who you’re going to be talking to. Do you see what I’m saying?

Karma: Uh-huh.

Marc: So the inner work here is, yeah, the world is not so kind to a 59-year-old woman as it is to a 59-year-old man, granted. Absolutely. That’s why you have to be extra kind to yourself. That’s why we’re in this conversation. That’s why we’re trying to change the conversation that’s out there. That’s why we’re talking about you stepping into your archetype because that’s what saves you.

So many women in your age group have been conditioned to think “I need to be a princess in order to have anything,” and that ain’t true. It’s not true. It’s not true. It’s not true. So here’s what I want to say, Ms. Karma, because we are at that time, and there’s lots more to say. And you have a big wish for yourself. And if you have a big wish and a big desire, you have to risk big.

Karma: I agree. I’m ready for that.

Marc: Okay. So everything I’ve said to you so far, to me, is risking big. Risking big means there’s a place in you where it doesn’t need to take long. This is less than a year of you getting current with your age and your archetype. It should take you less than a year. It can take you less than a year.
Karma: I buy into that.

Marc: You have all the wherewithal to do that. It’ll be a little bit of work. It’ll be a little bit of pain. It’ll be a little bit of crying, little bit of grief, little bit of let go for sure. But you can get current with that. And when you attract from that place, then you will find what you want. Because you will be being who you are.

Karma: Okay. Yeah, it’s been quite a process for me to recognize who I am and embody who I am.

Marc: Yes.

Karma: It’s taken me a long, long time.

Marc: Yes. Yes. And good for you. You have gotten to a beautiful place. And the journey continues. It doesn’t stop. The work doesn’t stop. The work doesn’t stop. The growing doesn’t stop. The evolution doesn’t stop. And I want to see you getting out there. I want to see you dating a little more. I want to see you being afraid. I want to see you crossing men off your list. I want to see you moving slow but taking steps in that direction. And that’s what’s going to help you feel good about yourself, good about your body, help you feel young. Just be in circulation more. And it’ll come when the time is right. So it will come in God’s timing, but we always have to meet a higher power halfway, I think.

Karma: Okay.

Marc: Sometimes the grace comes. That’s cool. Sometimes grace comes, but we can’t sit there and bank on it.

Karma: Right. I got that.

Marc: Yeah. I really appreciate our conversation. I really appreciate you. I’ve been saying some things that aren’t maybe easy to hear. I don’t know how it’s truly been for you, but I really want to see you get where you want to go. And I’m just kind of in awe of where you’ve been and the journey that your life has taken you through. It’s pretty mind-blowing to me. I can’t relate directly.

Karma: Yeah. Right.

Marc: But I’ve been around the planet, and I’ve watched some crazy journeys. So I know you’ve been on a hard road, and I’m amazed that you’ve gotten this far and amazed that you’ve transformed yourself in this way. And you’re going to keep doing it.

Karma: I am, and I know it’s a God thing that you’re in my life and the Institute is in my life. It is. It’s all part of the plan. And I really feel that in my heart. So I’m happy to be here. Happy for the conversation and appreciate all your input.

Marc: Yay! And we get to follow up again in about five months.

Karma: Yay! Yes, we will. Sounds good.

Marc: And I truly look forward to it, and we shall talk soon.

Karma: Okay. All right. Have a great weekend.

Marc: You too and you take care, everybody. Once again, I’m Marc David on behalf of the Psychology of Eating podcast. Take care.

I hope this was helpful. Thanks for listening to the Psychology of Eating podcast. To learn more about the breakthrough body of work we teach here at the Institute for the Psychology of Eating, please sign up for our free video series at IPE.tips. That’s I for Institute, P for Psychology, E for Eating.tips. T-i-p-s. You’ll learn about the cutting-edge principles of dynamic eating psychology and mind/body nutrition that have helped millions of people forever transform their relationship with food, body, and health.

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