Emotional eating: it’s something so many people beat themselves up for. But too often, we don’t acknowledge the real and legitimate reasons why we do it in the first place.
Like other eating challenges, emotional eating always has a psychological or biological reason for being here. Emotional eating doesn’t just “happen” … it’s almost always an unconscious psychological strategy to regulate difficult emotions.
That’s the case for guest coaching client, Katy, who is going through a period of massive change – and is struggling to manage her feelings about it all. As a newly-turned 30-year old, Katy is figuring out what’s important to her in life, what sort of career she wants to pursue, and how she wants to earn money. She’s hoping to find a life partner, and would one day like to become a mother.
And all this great change is bringing up major uncertainty, as well as feelings of anxiety, fear, and self-doubt.
Amidst all of this, Katy has been experiencing on-off cycles of emotional eating, overeating, and body judgment. She often finds herself wishing that her food habits didn’t feel like such a roller coaster ride, and that she could just feel consistently joyful and positive about her relationship with food and her body.
But as Marc David, host of The Psychology of Eating Podcast, explores with Katy, it can be pretty difficult to maintain a consistently positive and joyful relationship with food when the rest of our life is in a state of change and upheaval.
The truth is that our relationship with food is a reflection of the rest of our life. If we’re feeling uncertain about life, it’s natural to feel uncertain and inconsistent with food. Through self-awareness and self-kindness, we can begin to see food as the powerful and effective emotional regulator that it is – and stop making ourselves wrong for turning to it sometimes when we aren’t feeling so good about life.
As Katy looks to the bigger context of her life, she realizes that her love-hate cycles with food and body, and in particular, with emotional eating, are simply reflecting the cycles of change she’s experiencing in her inner and outer worlds. And with this new awareness, she can bring some much-needed forgiveness and self-compassion to herself – which ironically, can begin to free herself from the very unwanted eating patterns that are weighing her down.
Episode highlights:
✅ Why seeking to be in a constant positive state with food can keep us trapped in our eating patterns.
✅ How to find forgiveness and self-acceptance in your relationship with food – and why times of change call for it more than other times of life.
✅ How to know whether fasting or cleansing is right for your body, or when it might exacerbate yo-yo dieting tendencies.
✅ How to take baby steps with mindful eating.
We’d love to hear your own experience or thoughts about this episode – please drop us a comment below!
Transform Emotional Eating
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Emotional Eating in Uncertain Times: It’s Time to Forgive & Let Go – In Session with Marc David
Marc David
Welcome, everybody. I’m Marc David, founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating. We’re in the Psychology of Eating Podcast. I’m with Katy today. Welcome, Katy.
Katy
Hello. Hi, Marc, thank you.
Marc David
Thank you for being here. Just a quick word for anybody listening in who is new to the podcast, Katy and I are meeting for the first timea nd the idea is to see if we can have a good time, a productive time together and have a session. So Katy, if you could wave your magic wand and have whatever you wanted, with food and body, what would that be for you?
Katy
Nice. Thank you for the question. I think it’s a question that feels hard for me to answer without a little bit of context.
Yeah. So the context being that I will go through periods, like phases or cycles of a ton of positive energy around food and body and exercise and self love and then those periods – yeah, where I feel in touch with my hunger signals and calling joy into my life in general. And then there’s often a time that I hit sort of a wall. In the last two years, especially I’ve hit sort of a point where I’ve made decisions around work that have made me feel stifled in my life and a bit more stuck. And I turn towards habits that aren’t as great for my health and great for food and body. And I think it has a little bit of an energy of like, I give up, I can’t, I don’t want to try anymore, I feel stuck and those habits include over eating or eating while driving. And those habits eventually lead me to my appearance changing somewhat, and then my self confidence changing and, and then I tend to hit a wave of like calling back that good energy in. But I guess if I could change anything, it would just be a little bit less of a roller coaster and more of being sustainably in the positive. Sort of like affirming feelings of beauty and letting that be the case.
Marc David
Sure! So that makes a whole lot of sense. How long have you noticed that this has been a sort of dance for you – a pattern for you?
Katy
So, I just turned 30 but you know, I struggled with body image I can remember since I was nine years old and probably more since high school have I gone through various ups and downs of waves of just really focusing on like, weight loss and then waves of gaining weight. So at least 10 years but each each time that’s happened, there’s been a little bit of a different flavor to it and like different learning that happens within it. And some of the learning has been really beautiful and positive. I definitely had like a period of really mindful eating at times that brought a lot of joy into my life that I might want to describe in more detail because I think that’s one of my wishes is to have a more mindful, sacred relationship with food.
Marc David
So, when you first noticed that food was a thing for you, body image was a thing do you have any memory – like what was going on in your life? What do you think prompted that? Like, what do you recall? Like what comes to mind from that time in your life?
Katy
Do you think should I go way back or?
Marc David
As early as you can remember..
Katy
I remember really young, like six years old, watching Britney Spears on the television and thinking that I wanted to wear a belly shirt. Or nine years old, on the soccer team and looking at myself in the mirror and seeing like a tiny little bump on my on my belly and feeling like oh, that’s not good. And I remember it being connected to the influence of media. So that’s a long time ago and then different forms of it in high school where I had a period in high school where I couldn’t get to school on time because I would obsessively change outfits thinking that none of the clothes fit right. And I feel like I’ve done a pretty good job and a lot of hard work of like letting go of a lot of that – in a lot of ways I feel relaxed around food and relaxed around body. But can still get into different mindsets that are hard?
Marc David
Yes, yes. So when did you turn 30?
Katy
I turned 30 in December, the day after Christmas.
Marc David
Have you noticed anything different turning 30?
Katy
Yeah, I’ve noticed that I feel attached to my 20s, I guess is what I’m noticing. Like, I feel attached to youth and I feel attached to I think like coming up from my subconscious are just like fears of of change, fears of losing control or not being healthy or not being well.
Marc David
Anything else that you’ve noticed?
Katy
Um, it was two months ago. I don’t know, like in my body?
bJust in general, in your life, I often think of turning 30, turning 40, turning 50, as very just sort of palpable times when people can feel very different there’s something, there’s a shift.
Katy
Yeah, I think there’s a lot of change in my life right now so I’m still sort of trying to find my settled point. I have done quite a few different kinds of work. And I have a lot of passion for different kinds of work and I think I’m still seeking exactly what my path is. Where exactly I belong. So all of that is sort of accumulated around like the turning of the decade. Yeah, I think I’m still being curious about what 30’s mean to me, still trying to figure it out.
Marc David
What stands out for you most when you imagine your future and what you want it to be? Even if you don’t have like, specific ideas, like I want to be a veterinarian or whatever. What do you imagine for yourself?
Katy
It’s a good question. I like tuning into that in a sort of intuitive way. Like yeah, I want beauty, I want community around me, I want to have a partner, I want to be doing things I love, like having a creative life with art. I like to do pottery and study herbalism. So like, having a lot of these things in my life, I think is what I want and a lot of connection to nature.
Marc David
Do you see yourself having kids?
Katy
I would love to have kids someday, yeah.
Marc David
So are there times and forgive me, I can jump all over the place, but there’s definitely a method to the madness. Are there times that you notice even if for briefly even if it’s for an hour? Or a day, whatever – where you feel good about my body?
Katy
Yes, there are.
Marc David
What can you tell me about those times any similarities commonalities with those times? Any themes?
Katy
Yeah, like movement that I really love, I go to a big dance sort of event many weeks I go to a dance thing so it’s getting to move my body freely and feeling strong. Last summer, I was hiking a lot. So those moments and yeah, I think when food feels in flow for me, which maybe I could describe what that looks like more, but when I just feel like I’m eating the foods that make me feel good that I don’t have guilt around where I feel like, you know, I feel hungry and then I get to eat and it’s delicious. And then I feel like happy afterwards and I don’t feel like I need to keep eating. Like I’ll have periods of that kind of flow. And that feels good for me.
Marc David
Other than food and body, if that was all handled, if you were in a great place with that. What’s the what’s the one biggest stressor or worry or anxiety that you have right now?
Katy
Probably right now, making decisions for the future. Figuring out how I want to be financially sustained is a big stressor.
Marc David
Yeah, yeah. Okay. And when it comes to weight do you have in your mind, I want to be at a certain number. I want to be at a certain weight.
Katy
Um, I don’t think about the number too much. I think that if I sustainably lost like 10 to 15, possibly 20 pounds, probably 10 to 15 but it was like a sustainable loss, like it would be better for my body.
Marc David
Better for your body meaning?
Katy
Meaning, at least right now, I think because the last few months, I’ve been more in that, like, what I’m calling like a negative phase. I think I’ve gained like seven pounds in the last few months. And I wake up and I feel pain and my plantar fasciitis, which I relate to just carrying a little too much. And stiff, like stiffness in my shoulders and my back. Where I just feel like that has to do with just carrying a little bit too much.
Marc David
Understood. Is there just from a strict vanity standpoint, are you just talking not in terms of how your body particularly feels what you think is healthier. Just from a vanity standpoint, here’s how I want to look. Do you have a vision in your mind an image in your mind?
Katy
I’m sort of yeah, I’ve truly tried to not think about this so much. Because I felt it was unhealthy to fixate on a certain appearance, but when I was 21 I lost 30 pounds and remained at that size for not that long, about a year but I felt incredibly confident in my body. And so I guess I would love to feel, you know, I don’t know, I guess it’s been a long time since then. So I’ve almost lost connection to it but feeling slim in the way that I felt then was nice. I lost my period for most of that year I stopped bleeding. I was underweight. Um yeah, I don’t know, am I answering the question?
Marc David
Yeah. Yeah. What were you thinking when you lost your period that year, and your body has lost a bunch of weight? And here it was, you’re feeling good about your body and you’re not having your period. What did you tell yourself?
Katy
Um, I guess I didn’t know for sure that the period loss was about the weight at the time, I didn’t realize that until I gained about 15 pounds and suddenly my period came back. But that was a period of time when I had been feeling really down about my body and I remember feeling so down that I sort of like called to the universe for help. Like, it had just been so many years of, of battling with that, that I remember just being like help and this this book came into my life that was all about mindful eating and I started to read it and I adopted that mentality and those practice with very little resistance, so it was about like self love and being really present with every bite of the food and I would eat just like you know, I would wait until I was hungry. I would cook something beautiful exactly what I wanted. And I would like be so aware of the smell I would feel the smell like hit my senses. I would take a bite I would feel like where it nourished my body. And I would eat just like not even very much and I would feel just completely satiated and it felt like a very spiritually connected time for me and I was studying abroad in college.
So a lot of things were easy, school was paid for, my living situation was paid for and I was in like a really pretty awesome group of friends and I just got to focus on me. And so as I dropped the weight, I think I just felt super great. I just felt like, weeeeee, this is what I’ve never dreamed could actually happen. And I was running, going for jogs every day and practicing yoga and I felt confident and I felt like yeah, attractive! And those were all things that I’d wanted for a long time.
Marc David
Okay, okay. I’ve got some ideas and some thoughts for you.
I want to come back to age 30 and talk a minute about – you know, there’s been all kinds of interesting books written and interesting research on life cycles and different age groups. And the transition from 28/29 to 30 is a very compelling one. And what I’ve seen, what I’ve noticed over the years, is that up to age 30, a human being is living sort of in reaction to my world, my environment, meaning, okay, I’m born, here I am, I got these two big people that are my parents and here’s the TV and here’s what I’m watching and there’s Britney Spears, and her cute belly button. And I’m kind of, okay, I’m responding and here’s what’s to eat and wow, this is good and, wow, I want more of that. And we’re responding to what’s going on in school and the issues with friends. And we’re just learning how to react to our world, because everything is new.
Katy
Nice.
Marc David
Something shifts around 30, where it’s the turning point of reacting and responding to our world, versus beginning to find yourself and choosing how you wish to be in the world. So yeah, we’re always going to be responding to the world because the world is going to give you situations and experiences and moments and opportunities and challenges. And at the same time, this is a time in your life where it’s an inflection point, you are turning a corner. And I think part of what’s happening is that for you, like a lot of humans, and particularly in this culture, like a lot of young women, we are in response in reaction to a lot of the images that we’ve seen, and a lot of what we picked up from the world and the media about how you’re supposed to look. And it’s remarkable that and it’s not uncommon, you could be six years old and go, oh, I want to look like that. And you can be eight years old and go, Oh, I don’t look like that. What do I got to do to look like that? At some point, we figure out that in order to look different, I might not be able to look exactly like Britney Spears. But if I manipulate the food on my plate, somehow, diet and exercise, I can change my body. And that’s a blessing and it’s a strange curse at the same time. We’re learning about the quote unquote power of food. But it’s a power that becomes a little bit distorted. Because we are taught to believe you’ve been taught to believe that your value your worth, your love ability depends on having a certain body and a certain look in a certain way.
And that’s just what young people go through. It is so hard to not go through that in this day and age. Because the conditioning is so strong.
So when it feels difficult for you to overcome, you know, I want to love and accept my body as it is or I want to get back to the spiritual place. I want to get back to this good place, this flow state. If that’s difficult, it’s because it is difficult. Like really difficult, right? And it’s not difficult because you have difficulty with it. It’s difficult because the setup that’s presented to us from the world makes it extremely hard.
And what often happens is that your body, our body will be a reflection of our journey. And your body has been a reflection of your journey. And in the times, when you feel good about yourself, you kind of feel good about your body. And the times when you don’t feel good about yourself, all the circumstances conspire to I don’t feel good about my body. And I’m turning to food because I’m not feeling good about myself or my life, and it’s easy to turn to food to self soothe. It’s one of the best self soothing medications that’s the creator of the universe ever invented. Because you need it anyway. We need food to live. Food tastes good. Food gives us a pleasure chemistry release. Food instantly makes us feel better. And we learn from a young age like this is instant. Ah, okay, relax. This feels good. Oh, but wait a second, I’m not supposed to eat this because I eat it, I’m going to gain weight. So I have to avoid it. So I’m putting all my energy into avoiding the food or trying to control it, which is uncomfortable? And how do I deal with those uncomfortable feelings? I eat food. So it’s a strange conundrum.
I happen to believe that you’re at a time in your life, when you have more facility than you’ve ever had to start to occupy your body in a whole different way. And I don’t see your issue as food, I don’t see your problem as food. I just see you’re an easter, I’m an eater, we’re eaters. Obviously, we want to have the best relationship with food that we can. Sure, I want to have a relationship with food that works for me. And at the same time, food is really the solution to a lot of our problems. And you’re learning how to ground yourself in the world. You’re learning to find your way and you’re learning to find your place and you’re learning to find financial stability. And you’re learning to make this next individuation from being dependent on anybody dependent on family or parents and be your own person and find out okay, what am I gonna do in this world? What gifts do I have to give? That’s a lot. Like just saying, that is a lot. So if it feels confusing, it’s because it is, if it feels daunting, it’s because it is. And if you happen to turn to food and any of that to feel better about yourself. It is beyond forgivable. I’m just trying to put it in context. It’s completely forgivable. And I think that if we’re looking at how is my relationship with food and body a great teacher? How are the challenges that I face with food and body a great teacher? I think one of the things food and body is teaching you right now. Is forgiveness. Forgiving and it’s not like you’ve done anything wrong. But if I’m not eating the way I think I should, then I think I’ve done something wrong. If my body’s not looking like I want it to look, then there’s a part of me that’s telling my body you are wrong body. And the body is wrong because I ate wrong and I ate wrong because somehow I did the wrong thing. And if I’m wrong, then I’m I’m guilty. And if I’m guilty, I kind of need to be punished because that’s what you do to people who are guilty of a crime you punish them.
Katy
Right.
Marc David
And we will each have our own brand of punishment. So it’s learning to kind of start to get to the root of that conversation. Which is not, oh my god, the eating is the problem. No, the eating is the solution I’m eating to feel better about myself. I’m eating to feel some pleasure and some relief and some goodness. So that’s a solution. The challenge is how do I regulate my emotions in ways other than food? That’s, the growth edge. And the growth edge is, how do I give a big self hug forgiveness when I’m doing something that I wish I wouldn’t have done around food?
Katy
Totally yeah, so much of that resonates and feels compassionate. I feel it land in my body and yeah, feel like emotional. Yeah, I think sometimes when the overeating is happening, I kind of have that debate in my head, like, should I just be easy on myself, just let this happen? It’s okay. You know, like, in general, like, you have a balance overall. So it’s okay, that in this moment, you need that soothing, you know? Or sometimes wondering, like, oh, you really should be on top of this, or like, why are you now letting yourself do this bad thing, or, you know, that conversation happens in my head.
Marc David
So if I had to choose one place to start for you, the starting place would be okay, when you’re going to emotionally eat, do it. And when you’re doing it, when you’re eating, be really present, be really aware, mindfully, eat soulfully get the experience that you want, and give yourself that without being in a fight in the moment. Just so you can have that experience of Oh, this isn’t actually a crime. It’s not actually a crime I’m trying to regulate my experience right now. And you know, something? The best solution I got right now is eating some food. That makes me feel good. Okay, so eat the food and feel good. And do your best to forgive yourself. And as the thoughts come up called, well, you should have been different you should have done something else, that’s where you want to breathe in compassion and breathe in forgiveness because as you strengthen that muscle, that compassion muscle that being present when I’m doing this thing that I’ve told myself is wrong. Actually being present for it and experiencing it your choosing muscle actually gets a little stronger. So in other subsequent times, you’ll have more ability to make a different choice because you know you’re going to stand by yourself you know, you’re not going to self attack, you know, you’re not going to self blame. Right? Part of the challenge is we get afraid of ourselves because we can be a harsh critic. Yeah, yeah. I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to eat this because I’m really going to get down on myself. That’s scary. That’s enough to scare you into eating.
Katy
Totally. Yeah.
Marc David
So it doesn’t sound super sexy but I think it’s a next practice because you’re riding the wave called your life. And right now, this is what your life looks like. Uncertainty, unknowns, possibilities. And you’re learning. Like so many of us, we’re all still learning how to be in our body. In a way that works. It doesn’t stop you know, there’s going to come a time when you know this eating thing is not an issue for you and you’ll have some other issue with your body. Pain here, an ache there, a joint this, a rash here, whatever it is. we’re always learning to be inhabiting our body in what the body is doing. So I just see you as riding the wave of your life. And I think it’s just helpful to remember that your life is not a smooth, easy wave right now.
Katy
Yeah, yeah, I think that’s something that maybe I need to change my self talk around. Because I think there’s so much of me that just wishes it was smooth and easy or wishes or thinks if I’d done it right. If you just made that choice, that one choice that time, then it would be smooth and easy right now. And yeah, kind of like getting down on myself or not having made all the right choices. Which brings up pain.
Marc David
Yes, yeah. That’s where the forgiveness piece comes in. You made the best choices you could have, given who you were and what you knew and where you were at. You were looking to make the best choices for yourself. And this again, is what that turning 30 point is where you’re now looking forward into the future and we’re turning away more and more from my past. Like, yeah, we made certain choices, and it’s good to kind of look in the mirror and go, Yeah, oops, made that choice, made that choice. Wouldn’t make that choice again. Got it. Okay. And all’s forgiven. And let’s go. I mean, easier said than done, but really that is what you’re shooting for here is to keep moving forward and being fresh, and cleaning the inner house of unnecessary stress and anxiety. Unnecessary stress and anxiety is the self judgment
Katy
That sounds right. That makes sense. Yeah, I think focusing on that would feel really good. Just being kind to myself and sort of gentle with myself.
Marc David
And maybe this is a different way of saying what I’ve been saying. There’s there’s also a place where it could be useful to give yourself permission to just be imperfect and really join the human race and nobody’s perfect, no life is perfect. Nobody’s a perfect eater. And your goal is not being a perfect eater your goal is being your best self on your journey to be your best self, life is going to expose places that are not that. And food and body is a place where we get to learn life lessons.
So much easier to step into your future, because you have a beautiful future ahead of you and it’s easier to step into that and embrace it and welcome it and see it if you’re letting go of baggage that you don’t need you don’t need guilt, shame, self attack, to second guess yourself if you ate this that or the other thing all you need is forgiveness, some breathing and just coming back home to yourself.
Katy
Yeah, I think that is something that I’ve been learning in a slow way like I remember maybe five years ago engaging with food with a lot more self attack and a lot more fear and turbulence and like because then you’re you know right then you’re just shooting like fight or flight signals all around and you know, the act of eating was bringing up a lot of fear. And I wonder if that still happens sometimes like when I do perhaps have a day to myself or have you know the whole evening to myself and I can just cook a cook a meal and sit down and eat it I’ll notice that even then sometimes I’m, you know, my system is kind of activated. And I’m like, oh, you know, I have an hour, I could just be with the food. And I think coming the way that I described when I was studying abroad, I was in Italy, and I was eating so mindfully like that, that experience. I have trouble going to that place again, even though I know it was one of the most beautiful places ever, I I feel blocks come up where I’m like, No, it’s scary, that’s scary now, like going to being that present or going there feels like a block in some way.
Marc David
Let’s reframe that.
Katy
Okay.
Marc David
It’s a place you’d like to go to? And you’re learning how to get there again. Without the surroundings of Italy. So you’re learning how to get there. So there’s no block, you’re just learning how to get there again. And the conditions conspired to create this amazing experience. You are in a culture, you are in an energy field, where there’s a love of food, where there’s an ethic around food that is rather healthy. There’s time, there’s pleasure, there’s nourishment. And there’s not the same kind of body worry circulating in the atmosphere. And yeah, here you are in college, and things are getting taken care of for you. So okay, great. So now you have a memory in your cells, of what it feels like to have freedom with food in a certain kind of way. And it’s hard to recreate that, those exact conditions. And it is very possible to recreate the experience called this feel so good. So you’re learning how to do that, not a block. And in fact, when you were describing it to me just now, and you closed your eyes, and you breathed, you went there. No block there. Granted, you’re not sitting here eating anything but that’s perhaps a nice tool for yourself, or a technique is to sit down to a meal. And before you eat, just close your eyes and take a couple of deep breaths. And remember that time, just think of a time if there was specific times that this felt so good, and feel what that feels like in your body.
Katy
It’s a good idea. Yeah. Tuning into that before. Sometimes I think I jump into like my first bite, wishing it was like that but maybe you’re just like taking a little more time before to drop in like that. And, yeah.
Marc David
And be imperfect, even if you even if you can create that experience 10% of what it used to be right, and then 15% of what it used to be. It’s, it’s take some baby steps, it doesn’t have to be perfect.
Katy
It makes sense. Yeah. I have a different question.
Marc David
Please!
Katy
Um, I’m thinking about, because I think in a way the last few months, you know, whether it was giving up or slash, like just being okay with like, like, Okay, I’m stressed now. I’m not going to be perfect. And I just sort of, I think I did some of what you’ve been describing of like, I just have to let myself eat I just have to let this happen but now I’m like reaching a place where I’m like, okay, maybe I’ve done enough of that. Like I kind of want to shift now like and I wonder like, I don’t want to go too crazy down like a certain diet rabbit hole. You know, you know, I know in the past sometimes, because I’ve read your Slow Down Diet Book I really enjoyed that book. It was wonderful. But you know, like you really suggest eating breakfast and that’s something that I I struggle with that decision because I noticed if I don’t eat breakfast, and I either eat like, sometimes as late as one in the afternoon that seems like a sweet spot or sometimes like 11am I feel really good. I like get all this energy from not eating like I feel kind of like I got cleared out and then when I do eat at 11 or 1, then it’s like, just I just feel like oh, yeah, now, I’m really like eating and it feels great. And so I like kind of debate like, Oh, should I try? Like, should I give myself you know, like a two week cleanse or something where like, I only drink juices in the morning, and then I have a light meal or something, I’m kind of I look, I’m looking into the future, wondering if I should do that. And also knowing that that can cause like a yo yo effect. And I sometimes get caught in that question of like, well, it can feel good to do like a cleanse, but I don’t want to be too extreme.
Marc David
Yeah. So I’m with you cleanses are great. Fasting is great, intermittent fasting is great. It’s all great. It’s a tool, it’s a nutritional tool for our toolkit to help tool for our toolkit. And I think what often happens is that a lot of people turn to fasting, really as a way to lose weight. And as a way to keep in the frequency called I’m trying to train my body how not to eat. I’m if you’re feeling tentative, I would rather you not do a cleanse until you feel more solid ground for yourself with food. Because it can be a yo yo effect. And, it’s a fine experiment, the reality is you’re not going to harm yourself, like nothing bad is going to happen. And cleanse might feel really good. And you might lose some weight. And that weight might stay off and it might not it might come back on again. And if it comes back on, then you have to be with that. Like, Oh, I lost a bunch of weight and then some weight came back on. So it’s it’s it’s really being aware and willing on the journey to learn from it. You know, a spring cleaning is great. It really is. And if it helps you center yourself and become more present with yourself. And if it helps recalibrate you, you know, I think that’s the best aspect of a cleanse or fast where it’s a, we’re pushing the reset button on the body and the mind. Don’t look at it as just as just a thing for the body. It’s also for the mind.
Katy
Yeah. Big time. Yeah.
Marc David
So so in order to do a cleanse, you want to make sure you have the right circumstances, meaning you’re not going to have to be doing a lot of work or a lot of travel or a lot of a lot of multitasking that you can have time to go within a little bit.
Katy
Nice. Yeah. Yeah, somehow I think that that’s affirming to hear. It’s affirming to hear, and it’s affirming to hear from you. Because I have found that to be a really good tool for me, like, a day long fast has sometimes just like worked wonders in my world to like, shift my mind and bring a lot of energy back into my world. And so then I get I kind of freak myself out. Or I’m like, wait, this feels really that worked really well for me. But like, I’ll read books that say like, don’t do it because you’ll mess up your metabolism. Or like, you know, so I think I’m hearing like to just use it sensitively and mindfully and don’t expect it to be this like forever weight loss thing. But for like, you know, it serves a specific purpose that’s also for the mind.
Marc David
Yes. So it’s a tool. It’s a nutritional tool. And it’s a tool for the mind. It’s a tool to help us reset psychologically metabolically. And then to notice whatever happens for you, in the experience, notice what comes up. And always in the back of your mind, keep remembering that the goal is not to not eat. Your goal is to learn how to be an eater in a way that works for you. And this is just a great tool. Nice if you’re drawn to it. Absolutely.
Katy
Nice. That makes sense. I’m thinking of one more thing. I’m thinking of something else that comes up in my mind and psyche around body, which is where there’s like particular body parts or even something as like strange and simple as like the slope of my shoulders. I’ll get nitpicky about like, even when I’m in a place of like joy, like I feel like I’m in a healthy place, and I feel like really happy about my movement and my diet. I’ll still maybe see a picture of myself and be really down or like they’re I guess they’re pretty mean voices that come up. It’s sad that our minds have been conditioned so specifically, I think, but I guess if you have any suggestions for like softening that or if you’ve worked with people around that kind of thing.
Marc David
Yes. I like to think of that voice. We can call it the perfectionist archetype. It’s literally a voice. And we often think that I’m me, I’m one person, and I am, I am me, you are you, we are distinct persons. But there’s actually, we are composed of many different voices. There’s the part of you that’s a friend, there’s a part of you, that’s a daughter. There’s the part of you that’s an academic, there’s a part of you, that’s maybe an athlete, there’s a part of you, that’s a meditator, there’s a part of you, that’s a nature girl, there’s a part of you, that’s the artist or the Potter or so we have all these different archetypes in us. And one of the archetypes we have in us is the perfectionist. And the perfectionist voice is very strong. Speak for American culture, but it’s been exported all around the world. That voice gets fed through media from a very young age. So all the input that’s coming into your eyes and ears, from a very young age is supporting whether you can notice it or not, it supports the perfectionist archetype. Look exactly like this exactly like that.
And the perfectionist is a tyrant. The perfectionist can be very rigid. The perfect perfectionist can bring us down in a big way. That perfectionist can be a soul killer. In the positive, the perfectionist is the part of us that okay, let me just, I want to really do this, right. I want to do this task, right? I want to make this this work of art just perfect. I want to do this exquisitely. Okay, great. But in in its unhealthy version the voice is a tyrant. So it’s less about fighting that voice. But noticing it and acknowledging that it is a distinct voice in you, that’s not you. It’s a part of you. It’s a voice in you. And that part of you happens to show up, and it tends to sit at the head of the table when it chooses to, and it starts yakking and that voice can easily get our attention. And that we can easily become subservient to that voice. So the way to be in relationship with that voice is the same way you would be in relationship, let’s say with meditation, which is, I noticed when that voice comes up. I don’t look to fight it. I’m not even judging you like, Oh, here’s the perfectionist in me judging the slope of my shoulder. There’s a perfectionist in me judging this little detail on that little detail. Oh, right. There she is. Deep breath, and calling another voice.
Call in the voice of compassion. Calling the archetype of the artist in you who can see beauty in just about any work of art. It is a work of art. Your body is a work of art, can you look at it and see the artistry in it? And see how what you’re what the perfectionist interprets as imperfection is actually a beauty is actually worthy of studying with curiosity, as opposed to judging with criticism. So I’m not fighting my perfectionist voice. I’m noticing it. I’m acknowledging it. I’m naming it oh, that’s the perfectionist in me. I’m taking a moment of pause to relax myself because the perfectionist will tend to stress us out tend to put you in a physiologic stress response. So a deep breath when the perfectionist shows up helps us bring down our stress temperature so we can call in a different voice.
Katy
Yeah. Awesome.
Marc David
And assume that the perfectionist willl always be there. Your job is not to defeat it. Your job is to just starve it by not giving it much attention. It starts to go away when you don’t give it attention. And it shows up here and there and you go “hi!” when it shows up.
Katy
Right? Yeah, I think that’s awesome. I like that a lot. I like that as like a practice as a way to respond to it when I noticed it. Yeah, sometimes I call in, like, the acknowledgement that like, okay, a two dimensional photo is not the same as you actually do when you’re like living and breathing and hugging and laughing with people. You know, it’s like a different version of you than like, the alive version of you. And, yeah, and like, it’s our ancestors, right? Like I my great grandmother, kind of like her shoulders looked like that, you know? So it’s like, it’s like, that’s okay, grandma, like, you’re fucking badass grandma. Like, I’m glad that you’re here with me or trying to call in voices that are a little bit more holistically minded.
Marc David
Yes, and always, the journey that we’re on is owning our body, and occupying it and landing and embodying in our body and inhabiting it because this is the body I have. And this is where I live. And this is where I operate. And this is where I do business. And this is where I feel. And this is where I experience. So let’s make it work. So that’s, that’s, that’s the goal. And you’re learning how to do that. Nothing’s wrong with you, literally. And we’re letting go of old conditioning that, arguably, I wish wasn’t there. But it’s part of being a human being on planet Earth is we need to let go of conditioning that doesn’t work for us. Keep the conditioning that was good for you. And let go of the beliefs and the thoughts that nope, the little viral beliefs. I got to be perfect. That’s a viral belief. No, that one doesn’t work.
What’s one key takeaway for you from this conversation today?
Katy
Yeah, I think the suggestion of forgiveness really stands out and kind of the acceptance that I’m going through a lot of questions, and it’s understandable and forgivable that it’s a complicated time. Think I need to keep remembering that. I would say that’s one. A good one. Yeah.
Marc David
I think that’s a great one for you. Thanks.
Katy
Yeah. Thank you so much. Great to be here. Thanks for all your work.
Marc David
Katy, great job!
Katy
Thanks.
Marc David
And thanks, everybody for tuning in. Take care of my friends.
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