Releasing Food Fears & Embracing Your Inner Nutritional Explorer – In Session with Marc David

Releasing Food Fears & Embracing Your Inner Nutritional Explorer – In Session with Marc David

Marc David 

Welcome, everybody. I’m Marc David, founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating. We are back in the Psychology of Eating podcast. I’m with Cecili, today. Welcome, Cecili.

Cecili 

Thank you so much.

Marc David 

Glad we’re doing this. Glad we’re here. So for listeners, if you’re new to the podcast, I’m in session, and Cecili and I are meeting for the first time. And the idea is to have a session together and see if we can help move you forward, Cecili. So if you could wave your magic wand, and get whatever you wanted with food and body, what would that be for you?

Cecili 

Really, it would be freedom. Just freedom from anxiety that I have around food choices, and how it affects my health specifically.

Marc David 

So, freedom from the anxiety, or freedom from the symptoms that you would need to protect yourself from?

Cecili 

Well, I mean, for me, it’s interesting because it’s straightforward. But yet, it’s very complicated. So I have a digestive disease. And, you know, I was told, “Okay, you have to take this medication for the rest of your life.” And instead, I chose to try food first. And when it worked, I think what that did was, it sent my brain a message saying, “These specific foods are what you kind of need to stay near and dear to, in order to maintain a healthy body and, you know, be free from symptoms.” And so this has been over a decade ago.

And so I know what foods my body rejects, just from being in tune with my food — with my body. But at the same time, there’s a whole bunch of foods that are healthy, that I have some fear around trying. Just because — you know, I think it just goes back to that feeling a sense of security. I mean, I just call it “food fear”. Sure, I have some food fear. And even though I know that — I’m also a nutritionist. I should just throw that in the mix for you. I think it complicates things a little bit more. So I know, from a professional, you know, educational perspective, that diversity and plant fibers is really what I should be shooting for. And yet, I feel like there’s a block. I have a block. And I mean, it is some fear and anxiety that comes up when I think about trying new foods and how that might affect my health status.

Marc David 

Sure. What is the condition you were diagnosed with?

Cecili 

So I have ulcerative colitis, which is one — you know, it’s inflammatory bowel disease. And I ended up in the hospital. So it was a pretty serious situation. And so, like I said, whenever I figured out these foods that felt really good in my body and — you know, didn’t cause any symptoms — I felt like I needed to kind of stay within those parameters. And I also have a lot of food reactivities, which is common with people that have inflammatory bowel disease.

Marc David 

So these days, if you can give me the quick summary, what does your diet look like, in terms of the sum total of the foods that work for you?

Cecili 

Yeah, you know, I probably eat about 25, 30 different types of foods. So it’s not ultra-limited. But I also — I mean, I want to explore other fruits and vegetables, specifically. I’m really good with proteins. But it’s this area of fruits and vegetables that I want to leap out into. And every year, for kind of my resolution or my goal, I always say, “This is going to be the year that I’m going to just really hit it out of the park. And by the end of the year, I’m going to have a huge amount of diversity in my diet, as far as fruits and vegetables are concerned.” And I always come up short.

Marc David 

You come up short, because you don’t try things because of the food fear?

Cecili 

Yes, exactly.

Marc David 

Has there been a moment in time in the last bunch of years, where you tried something and it didn’t work for you?

Cecili 

Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

Marc David 

What is the severity of the symptom or reaction?

Cecili 

Well, if some of them are things outside of just kind of healthy eating, that they immediately cause serious symptoms associated with inflammatory bowel disease — like, you know, passing blood and things like that. But, you know, just like from a vegetable perspective, it can be anything from upset stomach, to, you know, maybe diarrhea. Maybe headaches. So, nothing super severe. But what it does is, it tells me, kind of psychologically, it says like, “Oh, that didn’t work. So put the brakes on.”

Marc David 

Yes. Understood. So your challenge makes total sense to me. You know, here you are. Your body’s kind of placing certain guidelines, you know. We can call them limitations. Your body’s talking to you, and it’s clearly giving you messages — “this works, this doesn’t.” And sometimes when things don’t work, it’s not a very nice reaction. And even if it’s not a bad reaction, it still doesn’t feel good.

So it makes perfect sense that one would be in fear of going outside of what you know works. So I want to address that. But I first want to kind of talk a little bit more about you, and what surrounds your food and body journey, just so I feel I’m more locked and loaded to be of use to you.

Cecili 

Sure.

Marc David 

So before you were diagnosed, did you have symptoms? Did you suspect anything? Like, what was happening for you?

Cecili 

Yeah, so I mean, a couple of years before I was diagnosed, I did have symptoms. And I went, kind of, from doctor to doctor, trying to figure out what was going on, and always just kind of brush off, like — oh, you know, no big deal. Take this thing or that thing over the counter. Until things escalated to a point where I just broke down, you know, in tears at my doctor’s office, at yet another doctor’s office. And they finally took things seriously and, you know, sent me on to a specialist.

So that was two and a half years that I had these symptoms, that nobody could really help me figure out what was going on. But prior to that, you know, if I look back — of course, I wasn’t aware, wasn’t really consciously living at, you know, most of my life. And so, you know, if I look back — I mean, when I came into the world, I had problems with food. And so my whole life, I think I probably had reactions to food. And my body was, you know, like you said, speaking to me. But I wasn’t taught the language of the body. So I wasn’t really understanding what the things that I felt, meant.

And then also, just kind of as another background note that might, you know, spice things up too — is that I feel like I grew up in that era of, you know, the diet. You know, I’m from the diet generation. So I have had a lot — I have a history of food relationship issues to begin with. So then, I think that my food relationship issues looked differently previously. But now that I have this disease, and that I’m trying to, you know, listen to my body, it’s taken shape in a different way — my food relationship issues.

Marc David 

Are you wishing to lose weight?

Cecili 

No, I don’t need to lose weight. In fact, many times I need to gain weight.

Marc David 

Yes. So have you been self-treating all along the way, once you realized you weren’t going to go on medication? Or have you worked with any other kind of outside doctors, naturopaths, functional medicine doctors?

Cecili 

Yeah, I have. I’ve worked with GI specialists, a naturopathic doctor. I had acupuncture. I had a functional medicine doctor. So, just kind of in and out periodically. Not the entire, you know, 10 years, have I been under somebody’s treatment. But so definitely maintaining remission from ulcerative colitis has been mostly without medication, and just from food.

And in fact, another piece of the story is that I declined the medication. They told me food didn’t matter, and I knew that that probably wasn’t right. So I went on this journey to try to figure out what my disease was, what food meant for me, and my body and my symptoms. And it took me about nine months to figure out how to eat for my body. And then, all of a sudden, all my symptoms went away. So at this point, we’re talking about, like, three years of having symptoms, and then food miraculously changes everything.

Marc David 

What a successful journey for you so far.

Cecili 

Yes. I’ve had some ups and downs for sure.

Marc David 

Yes, yes. But all things considered, you know, the drugs that are used for ulcerative colitis — they don’t give you a cure.

Cecili 

Yes, that’s right.

Marc David 

So you took matters into your own hands, and you went outside the mainstream where you could, to look for other solutions. And so far, you’re managing your experience. And it sounds like your body’s in better shape now than it was a bunch of years ago.

Cecili 

Oh, yes. I feel better than, you know, ever. Which, you know, also ties me to that dialogue in my mind about food. And not venturing out too far.

Marc David 

Yes, yes. So here’s a frame that I’ll often use for any kind of food and body challenge — which is, our food and body challenges are great teachers. Above and beyond anything else, they’re great teachers. And you can be learning a lot from a great teacher, on many different levels. So clearly, on one level — how has this challenge been a great teacher for you? In part, it sounds like it’s taught you to take certain matters into your own hands. It’s taught you that you can be empowered, to self-treat and actually see your result. It’s taught you to be in relationship with your body in a whole different way. And it’s taught you that you could achieve a certain amount of success, relative to your health, by really paying attention to food and your body and your symptoms. And there’s probably more in there for you that’s, I’m going to say, obvious in terms of how this has been a great teacher.

And really, in this conversation, what I’m hearing is, there’s a certain amount of understandable concern, hesitation, fear. I’m kind of using those interchangeably. And natural caution. You know, so it’s not like, “Oh, my goodness. This is some crazy, unwarranted fear that shouldn’t be there.” It’s a completely understandable concern. And it’s a completely understandable hesitation. So you can call it a fear. And maybe fear creeps in. But I’m more framing it as — you know, let’s proceed wisely here. Which, I think, is what you’re doing.

And now that we’re kind of looking at your eating challenge as a great teacher — well, let me ask you the question. Relative to branching out, trying other foods. Because you’re in this new place, now. You’re in this place where your symptoms are largely managed. And you know what works for you. And there’s this part of you that says — your inner nutritionist says, “Wow, you know, you should have some more diversity. You should eat other things.” Yeah, sure, that makes sense to me. I like that. And then, you come against this wall called, “but, wait a second.” And the list of concerns. Does that — and I’m just kind of asking the question — does that kind of challenge show up in any other places in life for you?

Cecili 

Yes. Yeah, I’m sure. Of course. Yeah. Now that I think about it.

Marc David 

Yeah. So anything you can share, that’s shareable here? Like, places in life where you want to branch out, your intuition is guiding you in a certain direction, but the concerns and the hesitations and the fears are going, “Whoa, wait a second.”

Cecili 

Yeah. I mean, honestly, probably every aspect of my life. I mean, so I’m a small business owner. You know, I own my own nutrition business. And yeah, I mean, one of my biggest struggles is, like moving forward with putting myself out there, in order to, you know, prosper with this business. I struggle with that a lot. And I’m an overthinker. You know, “Well, what if this? And what if that?” And it’s all these endless possibilities that come up in my mind, that really just shut things — then I shut down. Then I’m like, “Okay, you know what? Status quo is good. I’m fine.” So you know, and it relates to the food thing too, where it’s like, “You know what? I’m doing pretty good. It’s okay.” But from what I know, the information that I’ve gained throughout, you know, the last decade date of learning — I need to expand. I need to stop that overthinking and all of that extra dialogue that happens. So yeah, it affects my business in the same kind of way that I had never — I haven’t made that connection.

Marc David 

Yeah, I think it’s a great connection. Because at the very least, there’s a connection between how the mind works and how digestion works. You know, from a scientific perspective, digestion largely begins in the mind. You know, as soon as you look at a food. If it’s a favorite food, your mouth starts to water. You know, that’s salivary amylase, beginning in your mouth. If you think about a favorite food, your stomach can start to churn. That’s peristalsis, kind of getting ready. So just looking at a food, your mind starts to know, your mind starts to make connections with the body.

And what’s also fascinating is that how the mind works and how digestion works are very similar. We often use digestive metaphors in our languaging. You know, “Let me chew on that. Let me ruminate about that.” Or, you know, “I can’t stomach that person.” Or, “I had a gut feeling about that guy.” We don’t say, “I had an elbow feeling or a kidney feeling.” So the way the mind works is often how digestion works.

In different systems of healing, if my mind is in upset, it’s said that it’s easy for digestion to be in upset. I mean, think about it. In science, in straight up science, if you and I are in a stress response, you’re not going to be digesting your meal to its fullest. In fact, if you’re in a full-blown stress response, the lion is chasing you. In a full-blown stress response, digestion is completely shut down. So the stress response is a graded response. There’s no stress, mild stress, medium, hot stress. And depending on the intensity of the stress, that will determine the intensity of digestive shutdown.

So in even moderate stress, we’ll be excreting nutrition. We’ll be excreting nutrients. Like, literally right out the body. So the mind is impacting digestion. Now, I think it gets more and more interesting. Because on the one hand, what we know is, your digestion is challenged, as an organ system, and is giving clear feedback: this works, this doesn’t. And your digestion is letting you know, very quickly. It’s being intelligent. So any symptom that you get is an intelligent symptom by the body. It’s saying, “Hey, Cecili, this doesn’t work.” So you’re getting clear feedback.

So it makes sense to me that, if that’s what’s going on in your digestion, your digestion is telling you, you got to be on alert. There’s some, you know, mild dangers out there, in terms of food. So it’s easy for the mind to start to work that way. Just in general. Like, “Oh, my God. Gotta be alert. Gotta be aware.” And at the same time, it’s easy — if my mind generally comes from that place. Like, if I have no digestive issues, and I have the kind of mind that’s constantly on red alert. I don’t trust people maybe, or I don’t trust life, or I don’t trust the world. I can see that eventually impacting my weakest link. Which for some people might be their joints. For some people, it might be their heart. For some people, it might be their brain. For some, it’s digestion.

So I don’t know which comes first. I don’t know if either comes first. Maybe they arise at the same time. I don’t know if we could ever know. But all I’m trying to say is that there’s a connection there. And I’m going to imagine that, as you use your mind in a way that truly benefits you — at the very least, it will be neutral towards your digestive system. And at best, it will help your digestion. Because you’re introducing a new way of mentation into the body.

So in other words, to me, as you become more explorative in your life, it’s going to be a little bit easier for digestion to relax. Because part of it is, if I’m guarding against, there’s a certain amount of wise stress response in there — “I’m alert. Don’t interfere with my castle. I got to protect.” And on the one hand, that’s a good thing. So it’s a little bit of a paradox. On the one hand, that’s a very smart thing. Yeah, you want to protect. You want to have boundaries. “I’m not going to eat this, this and this.” That’s a boundary. But then, on the other hand, sometimes you got to take a risk. And let something into the castle that may be good, and might not be good.

And I think the solution there is to, I think, learn how to trust — it’s not even trusting your body. It’s trusting you. Trusting that if I eat something, and it doesn’t work for my body — you know, something? I know how to take care of myself. I’m not gonna die. I’m not gonna just — poof, and be gone. Like, yeah, it might be irritating. It might be annoying, but I know how to take care of myself. And I’m always going to assume that the more we can relax into experimenting and exploring anything, the better chance we have for success. Yeah. So if you’re relaxing into a food choice, you’re putting your body in a physiologic relaxation response, which is the optimum state of digestion and assimilation and elimination. The body digests most efficiently in the relaxation state. So you see where I’m going with this.

Cecili 

I do. And as you’re speaking, you know, it’s all these little epiphanies going off that — I mean, I can see myself as clear as day. On the days that I — I mean, almonds, for example. Sometimes they work for me, and sometimes they don’t. And there’s certain times when I just really want to have something that’s almond-based, like a cupcake or a cake, or — you know, something like that, that’s almond-based. And when I just allow myself, and enjoy it, and not overthink it, I honestly do not have any symptoms.

When I’ve gone to the freezer, and I’ve been, you know, thinking about pulling something out, that could be the exact same cake — and I’m feeling guilty, or I’m feeling nervous, or — you know. I’ve planted these seeds in my mind that that’s something I shouldn’t be doing. Because you can have too much of this thing, or — you know, there’s so much psychology that goes into just going to the freezer, right before I decide to even walk over there. And that’s already impeding my digestion. So I’m already — yes. Yeah. And I know that about digestion. I just haven’t recognized that in myself, until you just — as soon as you were talking it through, I’m like — I can literally see myself many times having done just what you said,

Marc David 

Yes. So, bingo. So you know that experience. You’ve proven it to yourself. And so, if we get back to our relationship with food and body as a great teacher — and our challenges with food and health are a great teacher — then there’s a teaching here. And the teaching is, how can you impart — the teaching is, how can you relax more and more into your experience? With the understanding that, yeah, you might try a food, and it might not work. But the relaxation part comes in, because you know how to take care of yourself. And you’re not going to die. And you’ll get over it. And you’ve been through the worst of things. So where you’re at right now is a good place. And as you can bring down your stress temperature, you’re creating the optimum conditions in your body, to give it the best chance to be able to successfully digest and pulverize the food.

Cecili 

Yeah, that’s true.

Marc David 

And then again, I’m going to think — any other place in life where you can start relaxing into whatever you would normally back off from, and take a risk. And you don’t have to feel stress-free. Do your best to relax into something. And part of it is just learning how to trust. Even though I’m nervous and anxious. Like, when it comes to business, I know that place. Because I’ve taken dozens of risks in business, and financially. And yeah, for the most part they’ve worked out. And there’s been times when — oh, wow. That’s a challenge, or that’s a pinch, or that hurts. And you recover. And you learn.

Cecili 

Yeah, I know the comment or the quote, “You take every…” What is it? “You miss every shot you don’t try to take.” Or it’s some basketball term, right? Yeah, and I always say learning experiences, whether they have an outcome that was unexpected, in a negative way or a positive way, you still gain information from that. And you can keep — that can help you moving forward. So yeah, and you’re right. I’m actually healthy. I’m not in a state where I have a rational reason to not just take some risks with food and working on this diversity thing. So you’re right.

Marc David 

Yeah. So we’ve established that — you know, the food worry is understandable. I think if you can really reframe it — and that’s like, “I have food caution. And for good reason.”

Cecili 

Yeah.

Marc David 

“I have food caution, and for good reason. And I’m safe to experiment. Because no matter what happens, I’m going to be okay. I’ll recover. And I’ll adjust.” It’s allowing yourself to be an explorer, and not being sure what’s around the corner.

Cecili 

Right. Which is exactly what I need to do.

Marc David 

So let me ask you a question that is related to this topic, but it might not sound that it is. What are the things in your life that you do, where you feel it just puts you in your body, and takes you out of your head, takes you out of your mind? You just — you’re in your body?

Cecili 

Um. Gosh, that’s a big question. I mean, I think being in nature is huge for me. I love to go on walks in the woods and, you know, explore and find things. I’m never worried or overly cautious or overthinking anything when I’m kind of in that state of mind. I mean, I think when I’m in the kitchen, honestly. Even though it sounds like that wouldn’t be a safe place for me. But when I’m baking, I’m just living it up. I’m having fun. It’s where I love to be. And you know, I feel pulled there. I felt drawn to cook and bake. And so I actually do love being there. It’s not until — it’s like more the beforehand, where I’m trying to figure out what do I want to make, that there’s a lot of turmoil. But then, once I make a decision, I get in there and I’m super happy. So I’m not overthinking. I’m exploring. I’m being creative. I’d say those two things really are big for me. And then, also with my kids.

Marc David 

Yeah. I asked that question because what can happen when we have a digestive challenge that keeps us on yellow alert — that’s an interesting… [inaudible]… what’s coming into my system, what’s coming into my body. You have to, you know, just be on the lookout for what you’re doing. And you have to monitor. And it has a way of keeping us in our mind. And the antidote for that is to have the experiences in life that drop you into your body more and more, so you can just feel what it feels like to be in your body. Because the more we’re in our body, the more energy is going into our body. And I find that, for a lot of people who are having digestive challenges, any kinds of movement or exercises or life experiences that just drop them in, tends to be very balancing and can be very healing.

Cecili 

Okay. Yeah. And I think it’s a reprieve too, right? Where you’re not constantly overthinking. And you know, just that being in the head — that’s kind of hard to do.

Marc David 

Yeah. Because you’re going to need the part of you that thinks, and you’re going to need a sharp mind and a sharp brain. And you have that, and it’s a skill of yours. And let’s just make sure you balance that out with having times when you can let that go. That have nothing to do with food. And you can just drop into being in your body, and enjoy the body that you have.

Cecili 

Right. Yes, yes. That’s the connection there, with going out on these nature walks and stuff is — I usually do at least at some point say, on a, you know, hour-long walk, “I’m so grateful that I’m well enough to be able to do this.” So you know, I will have that thought. But it doesn’t overtake me, and take me back to places that were, “Oh, remember when you could barely walk,” or whatever. So yeah, I have to take more walks.

Marc David 

Yeah. Really. It’s training the body more and more — you know, all healing and repair of body tissue happens in a relaxation response. That’s when the body heals. The body doesn’t heal when you’re running from a lion. The body doesn’t really heal in a stress response. So, relaxation response — ideally, that’s going to be happening when you’re sleeping. So the body’s going to be doing a lot of its healing  regeneration of tissue while you’re sleeping, or while you’re in a relaxation state. That’s why, you know, traditionally, we’re ill — you go to a retreat. You go to a sanatorium. You let go of work. You lie down in bed. Because we understand instinctively that the body wants a relaxation response, in order to heal.

Now what happens is, you know, you have a life to live. And if you’re a parent, you got to deal with kids. You have to deal with work. You have a lot to deal with. And it doesn’t necessarily give you a lot of time to be in that relaxation response, especially during your waking hours. So anything that you can do that signals to you, signals to your brain, signals to your mind, and signals to your body, “It’s safe. You can relax. We’re out in nature. You love nature. It’s beautiful here. Air is clean. You feel good.” You’re giving your body messages that it can heal. And it can recharge because it’s safe. It’s easy to be in a conversation — “Should I eat this? Should I not eat that? Should I try this? Should I not try that?” And really what that conversation is — “Will I be safe or not?”

Cecili 

Yeah, that’s absolutely — that is what my brain wants to know.

Marc David 

Yes. “Will I be safe?” So that’s why I’m suggesting to take it — to reframe the conversation. So it’s not live or die, safe or unsafe. But it’s, “Is this a reasonable experiment? And if this experiment doesn’t work, am I going to be present to love and care for myself and nurture myself through the experience?” The answer is yes. You’re going to be present to love and nurture yourself. So, are you going to be safe? Actually, yeah. Might you get an unwanted symptom? Yeah. But an unwanted symptom is not life threatening. At this stage for you, eating a food, eating a vegetable, eating a fruit that doesn’t work for you — that is not life threatening. It’s an irritation, potentially.

Cecili 

Right. And probably unlikely.

Marc David 

Yeah. So all I’m doing is — I’m just over here saying, “Whoa, this isn’t that much of a risk.”

Cecili 

Right. Yeah. It reminds me I used to have panic attacks. And my acupuncturist said — you know, I literally thought I was going to die from having panic attacks. Like, they were going to cause such stress that I was going to have a heart attack. And she said, “How many panic attacks have you had?” I said, “I don’t know. I mean, hundreds.” And she said, “Have you ever died from one?” I said, “No, I haven’t.” So literally, the next time I had a panic attack, I was like, “You’ve never died from this.” And you know, I started just saying it to myself every time I would have one. And it finally resonated. Like, I proved to my brain that it was okay. And then I stopped having panic attacks.

Marc David 

Fascinating, isn’t it? Yes.

Cecili 

Yeah. Very powerful, the mind.

Marc David 

Yes. So you’re actually logically intervening. You’re doing a self-intervention. And saying, “Oh, this isn’t life threatening.” Because part of what makes the panic attack so panicky is, we think we’re going to die. Because panic is the kind of response that one has, when one’s life is threatened. So it’s actually — in certain instances, it can be a wise response. Panic? Get the heck out of here. Because this is a bad situation. I could die. So it’s always good to understand — what’s the brilliant reason for that symptom? So the brilliant reason is — yeah, panic can make sense in certain situations. And, oh, this is not life threatening.

Cecili 

Right. Yeah, I love the idea that you just planted. The seed you planted, to me, is to just — you know, relax. I think, for some reason, I’ve been on high alert, right? And maybe at one point, I needed to be on, you know, somewhat of a high alert. But I’m definitely not in that space. And I haven’t been in that space for a really long time. And yet, that still has been my approach. So just kind of calm down, take a deep breath, relax, and really rationalize what I’m — you know, I’m not putting a hostess cupcake in my mouth. And for some people — you know, that shouldn’t be a big deal either. For me, it would be. Because of the reaction — you know, just having this disease. But, yes, to put vegetables and fruits — yeah, I just put that into perspective, thanks to you.

Marc David 

Good, I’m so glad. You know, sometimes it’s a perceptual shift that we need, that really changes things. And for you — you know, so much of that is realizing that you are in a good place.

Cecili 

Yes. And that trust part that you talked about.

Marc David 

Yeah. Your body’s in a good place, relative to where it’s been. So if you look at your journey — like wow. You’re in a far better place — where you have a disease condition that can be pretty intense, that’s under control, using natural means. And goodness knows what you’ve avoided, what unwanted symptoms and complications you’ve avoided, by not taking a prescription drug for ulcerative colitis. So you’re in a good place.

And part of it is just, sort of taking a deep breath and realizing, “Okay, I’m on this new plateau. And this is where my body lives.” Doesn’t matter where other people’s bodies live. This is about your body and where your body lives. And you know what works for you. And you know what doesn’t work for you. And there’s also this place, where there’s some other possibilities that, “Hmm. These foods might be good for me. Maybe not. Maybe yes. Not gonna kill me. And they just might be good. And, worst case scenario, they’ll be a little irritating. But I can handle that.”

Cecili 

Yeah, and it almost seems like the reward for the risk is greater than — I was, you know, looking at the risk as being greater than the reward. And the reward is — I mean, I think about, “Gosh, if I had, you know, 10 or 15 new types of foods to have in my meals each week, how exciting would that be”? And I haven’t really been thinking enough about that. I’ve been thinking about, “But what if…?” So yeah, reframing is big.

Marc David 

It is. You’ve done it.

Cecili 

Yeah. Thank you.

Marc David 

Yeah, you’re welcome. It’s just about reminding yourself of that. Just one other thing occurred to me, that I want to mention before we finish up. And that is that — I’m going to guess, and this is just an educated guess that, if you stayed with the same 25-ish foods that you eat for the rest of your life, you’d be okay.

Cecili 

Right. Yeah.

Marc David 

And so, I just want to say that I don’t know, we don’t know for sure that your increased health and increased survival is dependent on you having more variety. More variety, I wish to say, is a preference. It might make sense from a nutritional standpoint, but I’m not so sure. Variety is something that is more recent in nutritional history. You know, my grandparents didn’t have a lot of variety in their diet, and they lived long lives. And they outlived my parents. And they ate, you know, a dozen different foods.

Cecili 

Right. Yeah, it’s interesting, because I do think that — because, as a nutritionist, and specifically for inflammatory bowel disease — you know, having those two things linking up together. I know so much, that I know that diversity is really important. And so, I think what I’ve been saying is, “Oh, my gosh, you only ate 25 to 30 different types of foods. You’re really doing harm here. You need to expand.” And I’ve been thinking of it from that perspective. Like, “You have to.” It’s like I’m forcing myself to do it, as opposed to just — I mean, I would like to diversify. You know, just from a flavor profile perspective. But truly, my desire comes from this place of negativity, which is, “Oh, my gosh. You have to do this. Because otherwise, you’re not going to be as healthy as you could be.”

Marc David 

Right. And all I’m saying is, we don’t know that that’s true.

Cecili 

And I had not ever considered that. I had just said that’s not — I mean, it never came into my mind. The opposite came into my mind: “I’m dependent on diversifying my diet.”

Marc David 

Yes. So if we look at diversification as a preference — yeah, I would like to have had more choices. And from a nutritional standpoint, that could be very beneficial to me. Hard to know for sure. I sense it would be. But again, I’m going to say your life and your ideal health doesn’t necessarily depend on that. So if we decouple that, then you can just be a nutritional explorer. And this isn’t a life or death thing.

Cecili 

Yeah. And I actually eat really healthy. And so, if I just thought about that for a minute. So, yeah. Very, very helpful session. So I am very appreciative.

Marc David 

I’m glad, Cecili. Great work. And I think it’s so great that you’re using your own food and body challenges to help other people.

Cecili 

Thank you.

Marc David 

You know, you’ve been on your own journey. You’re on your own journey. You’ve gotten your own education. And what a good thing. And you’re just continuing to learn and grow from your own food and body experience. Like that’s sometimes all — that’s the best we can do. And that’s pretty good. So I appreciate the conversation.

Cecili 

Thank you so much. I do too. It’s wonderful speaking with you.

Marc David 

Thanks, Cecili. And thanks, everybody, for tuning in. Take care, my friends.